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- cross-posted to:
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What I don’t understand is, have these people never heard of OAuth? I don’t know what it is, we have decades of this and people act like it doesn’t exist and don’t see the value in it. Even Lemmy, try to suggest why it might be valuable to separate identity versus community hosting, it’s like you have to walk people through it step by step.
There’s no way I’m giving platforms like this even more private information, but if governments put forth both publicly available OAuth servers along with the possibility of privately purchasable OAuth servers for this sort of thing, I would have no problem with it because then you have the possibility of vetting age authenticators like you would VPN providers, and the data would never leak into the social networks that abuse it. It’s like the regulators and the Internet has conveniently forgotten about OAuth and certificate authorities and has just said, “Yeah, let’s just have users leak their data all over for this” as if there were no better way. Maybe that’s the point, because I suspect organizations like Palantir will be quite happy at things like this.
If governments
America has left the chat.
Honestly, we should start doing hardware-based age verification instead. Have the government run a simple yes/no service for individuals to be able to verify their age. The service simply asks if you’re over 18, and the government responds with a simple yes/no.
You verify your identity on the device once when setting it up, it asks the government if you’re over 18, and then your user account is verified as an adult when the “yes” response is returned. The only time it would need to be repeated is when someone turns 18, which would be something the user would need to manually prompt their device to retry. And notably, the government isn’t being pinged for every site you visit, they only got pinged for the initial device setup. So they don’t get access to any of your browsing data.
Now your phone can automatically send a “yes, I’m over 18” signal to any site or service that asks. And kids won’t be verified, meaning they won’t even be able to see the “are you over 18” prompts; they’ll simply be booted off the site (or in Discord’s case, restricted) as soon as it automatically asks their device for an age verification. No action is required on the user’s part, and the site/service didn’t need any invasive info about who you are. As far as an adult is concerned, they got direct access to the site without any kind of annoying “are you over 18” prompt. And as far as a child is concerned, they got automatically redirected right back to Google’s home page as soon as they clicked the porn link.
For shared devices (like computers) it could be handled on a per user basis. You verify your age on Windows/Linux/MacOS when creating the account, and then whenever you’re logged in, any site can simply ask if you’re over 18. Don’t want your kid to stumble across porn? Don’t verify their account. Now safeguarding kids on the internet is as simple as parents safeguarding their computer password and refusing to verify their child accounts.
It’s basically the best of all worlds:
- The government/private data brokers don’t get free access to your browsing data, like what would happen if every individual site asked the government for verification. This is our current reality, with data brokers hoovering up photos of IDs to feed to their data scientists.
- The adult user only needs to take action once to verify their age, and then after that the age gates are automatically opened. You don’t need to verify independently with each site, because your device handles that automatically during the initial handshake.
- Sites don’t get any additional personal info about you, except for the automatic pass/fail hardware response saying that you’re over 18. They don’t need to collect your info to pass to a third party verification system. They don’t need to ask the government, because that has already been done. And they don’t need to worry about things like GDPR compliance for collected info, because there is no additional collected info.
- Your browsing info isn’t shared with third parties, because the sites/services you use have no need to ask third parties for verification.
Of course it’ll never happen though, because it would restrict what kinds of info data brokers could collect and sell.
They have and they don’t want it because it doesn’t give them access to everyone’s biometric data.
I could see this coming a long way off with Discord. It’s a honey trap. They swallow entire communities whole like some gargantuan leviathan of antiquity.
Trusting the teen abusers with biometric data? https://lemmy.world/post/42942639
Trying to get my friend group to switch over to Stoat (formerly Revolt) as soon as possible – I think Matrix is a harder sell for people not already in the federated spaces, or non-tech savvy people, but I’m hoping it fits the need.
I am on matrix partially and am going to go on stoat.
Something is busted because I wanted tonregister, it said it would verify my email, the verification expired before I even got the email, hours later.
From what I can gather, I think the Stoat team is likely experiencing insanely heavy and unexpected traffic to their platform, and their server is still trying to catch up - I am also running into the same problem, but I assume the team is working hard behind the scenes to get everyone in and stabilize the platform as soon as they can!
Stoat seems to be very early in development still. Matrix has gotten easier for non-technical users recently.
Oh, for real? Thanks, I’ll check it out - appreciate it buddy!
Edit: Just check it out, and it’s honestly got a alot (almost all) of the features I’m looking for, including a Canadian English language option. It sucks that it doesn’t seem to have custom roles/tags or custom emojis, but aside from that it being able to pin messages, have separate channels and voice rooms and being E2E encrypted are ticking the right boxes for me.
Discords about to lose a lot of users
I doubt it. this doesn’t really affect the majority of people, it just makes all accounts “teens” by default which blocks suspected nudity and age restricted channels
With discord pushing more adverts now at least they can’t advertise gambling sites to teen accounts
Yeah just like Reddit and Twitter and Threads etc. etc.?
how many you bet?🤭
At least 5
Enough
Read: Discord is de-anonymizing all users.
Leeeave.
I already built my Matrix server. I’m ready for Discord’s enshitification
Is there a way to get it to look like discord?
If not, I’ve been looking into Root and Stoat instead. Those both look nearly identical. Stoat can even use discord bots.
You mean Matrix to look like Discord? It depends on the client that you use I guess. I use FulffyChat and it’s identical to Discord and Stoat (having tried it myself).
Is that an open source alternative?
Yes, and federated.
It’s not ideal but under the circumstances we have to fall back to what we can. It’s not up to our standards we have to build something that is now, corporations won’t do it for us if that poison pills. The the day is when that was workable or firmly over now
Yup.
Does Matrix support screen sharing yet? IDK why I’m having such an issue getting a solid answer other places.
I’m able to do screen sharing, voice calls, video calls on element.
Group voice chat?
The ui indicates this is possible but I haven’t personally tried it.
Regarding screen sharing, I wasn’t able to capture application sound, but that may be a Linux issue as discord used to have the same problem.
I have the same issues on windows too
There is an issue for it but no one seems to be working on it https://github.com/element-hq/element-call/issues/3657
You can always just pipe the audio through the same sink that your mic goes into or make a virtual mic that receives both and pass it on. That’s how I deal with sharing applications in VCs (using qpwgraph to change the connections via GUI instead of command line).
Yeah but that’s inconvenient ofc.
Depends on you use-case. For most, probably. For me, it means I only have to learn how to do it once and it works on every single platform that has voice instead of figuring out the settings for each one individually. Also means I can just share audio any platforms (allowing me to use a custom soundboard and listen to other audio without sharing that other audio easily or actually sharing my screen) or do things like add Easyeffects in the middle. But I get why some would prefer an all-in-one experience.
might depend on the client, but i know element supports it
My Matrix server uses Tuwunel and I use FlufflyChat as a client. I don’t seem to have voice chat nor screensharing.
But more robust versions of Matrix, like Synapse or Element, might have it.
IIRC only Synapse supports video/voice calls and only Element & Element X reliably work for video/voice calls.
Synapse supports certain specifications that make video calls less buggy, but it works on all of the major homeservers.
Yeah, wouldn’t be suprised. I chose the lightweight versions when setting up my Matrix server. Mostly as a test.
I use Yunohost for simplicity, thanks for the link though
Went ahead and canceled my nitro.
Also cancelled mine. I don’t suspect this change will actually directly affect me personally, but it’s the final straw on a big pile of straw. I know plenty of people here will admonish those of us that were paying for it in the first place, but better late than never I say.
Not entirely sure what I’m going to transition my group to. It’s quite likely we won’t actually have one replacement, but many. We used text, voice, video, and screensharing on Discord (plus many other, though less important features). I don’t know of an alternative that does all of it.
I’m not sure about what you mean by video (using cameras, or posting videos) But I did check out Teamspeak, as I used to use it a long time ago, and it’s a nice medium between ease of use products like discord and security minded folks who use things like Matrix.
Either way, Teamspeak did add screen sharing, and the cost to host a server is about the price of a nitro sub. That’s if you don’t self host, which is always an option and makes things free.
It’s probably going to be the best option to convince my friends to finally leave discord’s ecosystem. Haven’t liked it since they started adding in bs like quests and the shop, it’s only a matter of time before it enshittifies so bad my friend group will be looking for a way to jump ship.
I mean video calls. I play ttrpgs online and that’s a must for me.
The only person I know who had nitro also had already cancelled their subscription before I even talk with them and they use lots of other mainstream platforms like
twitterregularly, so I was surprised.Does Element not support all of that?
Frankly it should be illegal.
Not just “never required.” Explicitly disallowed.
You’re right, but some governments are forcing it too.
Considering my friend whom I never thought would migrate contacted me first about this I think Discord is pretty fucked.
I only have the app because a handful of people have asked to add me on it. I can’t recall the last time I actually opened it, let alone used it to talk to someone. Actually, I think the last time I used it was not for socializing, but to get support for a game mod. (For some reason, instead of having an FAQ page, the creator directed people to their Discord. I feel like that’s more annoying for the creator, answering the same questions individually over and over again instead of just having a webpage that users can read and find their own answers on. But, okay, if you wish.)
Totally not worth the privacy invasion. Brb gonna take two seconds and delete the app from my phone.
Edit: it is done
It’s for everyone who wants to access adult content or get messages from people they might not know, according to their release.
Which includes many of the wargaming, traditional art, and queer Discord servers my partner and I use. Never assume that when a bad actor says “adult content” they mean hardcore porn and snuff, they mean everything that doesn’t conform to their ideal christofascist ethnostate purity. And now they have a list of all the “dangerous” nonconformists while blocking everyone else from being exposed to “dangerous” ideas. This should chill people to the bone. Nobody should be okay with this anywhere, in any capacity, in any quantity, whatsoever.
Isn’t it only servers/channels marked as NSFW? If you don’t mark it as NSFW then it shouldn’t make any different to how it is now.
Also it just detects things it can read. Stick it in a file format discord doesn’t understand, or link to an external site.
Even if it is hardcore porn, that still doesn’t mean I’m going to give them an ID/pictures to verify who I am just so I can see the art people draw of ███████████████.
This should chill people to the bone.
Whenever I read this idiom, I am reminded how many folks do not advance their psychology & neurological studies. A realistic idiom that is very true:
you can lead a horse to water, but
Healthcare workers were prioritized for vaccination, locking them into the narrative early. Once you’ve taken the shot and pushed it on patients, your identity – professional judgment, ethics, self-image as a healer – hinges on its safety. The cost of admitting error becomes psychologically prohibitive.
What the fuck did you link.
[edit] So, if you follow links to Joshua Stylman’s substack, you can find this:
Maybe it’s my algorithm, but the content was flooded with an unusual amount of vitriol directed at Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s nomination as HHS Secretary. […] talking heads across networks uniformly labeling him a “conspiracy theorist” and “danger to public health,” never once addressing his actual positions.
Honestly, I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time on this. It’s just funny, I guess.
Discord’s filters are kind of infamously bad about what they detect as “adult content.” I, for one, will not be supplying an ID to anyone. They’ve already given me several compelling reasons not to to give them money, but it seems that this one finally pushed me over the edge.
And the “stone the gays” people are the ones who get to decide what is and isn’t adult content
Charlie kirk getting his neck exploded wasn’t considered adult content by discord when I tried it.
Who doesnt love getting spearphisted by all these random girls on discord that send friend requests without ever talking to you?!
Don’t worry, this will still happen, they’ll just use stolen IDs from previous fishing victims, or from the database of 70,000 that Discord already had breached.
Yeah, it’s the part of this that seems like a benefit. “Oh, sorry, I didn’t verify my age so I can’t get spammed by direct message.”
Bro leave all my discord girlfriends out of this
So, if I am not looking for adult content, and could not care less about getting PMs from people I don’t know, I don’t need to sub to this privacy nightmare?
Discord is still a privacy nightmare regardless, but at least they won’t require your ID by default.
That’s the way I read it
I think this is the a major step in discords plan to be a service to games (ie business-to-business).
They are positioning themselves to be an age-verifying platform for games, alongside in-game chat, in-game VoIP, in-game store and game community.At some point, games are going to have to require age verification. It’s just the way the “protect the children” bullshit is going (instead of “enable the parents to raise their kids”, which is far to socialist and progressive) Or game shops will. But if you don’t sell your game, that bypasses game shops. And if cracks can bypass purchasing, then… It’s on the game to comply with laws.
If there is in-game chat: needs age verification.
If there is in-game voip: needs age verification.At some point, discord is going to roll out this massive suite of dev tooling that “just works” for devs creating multiplayer games with voip, chat, in-game purchases, gifting in-game purchases to friends, friends lists, out-of-game chat, game communities etc. while also offering age verification.
It already does a lot of that.
They are getting ahead of the age verification laws so they offer a very simple path for developers to “just pay discord” to skip a HUGE legal minefield, and get a bunch of functionality for whatever cut discord decides .Fuck that sounds awful. Guess I will just compile CDDA and play with myself instead.
Classic regulatory capture example.
I know Element sucks compared to Discord but with more users and potential funding interest from that user base growth, it can get a lot better and snowball to fast improvements. Blender was the butt of jokes until version 2.8. Like 15 years of being easily dismissed as major commercial production worthy. Element can get better. It’s the story of pretty much all the well regarded general consumer targeted open source software we use today
I know Element sucks compared to Discord
Only if you don’t care at all about privacy, agency, or continued access to your communities regardless of corporate whims.
Element can get better.
Yes, as can other Matrix clients, and the network itself. And they are. :)
I feel like Matrix already hit the “elbow point” where it’s getting good fast. It’s very usable, I have ~10 contacts I regularly communicate with on Matrix.
For those that can’t (or at least for now won’t) self-host, any suggestions on medium-sized #Matrix servers?
Or at least some database on those so users can check more easily, similar to the database sites for the ActivityPub?
You can create a free account on matrix.org with some limitations. I don’t know any list of servers unfortunately.
Problem of Matrix.org is that, afaik, it’s the biggest one, meaning if it suddlenly goes offline (again), people will be in the dark.
And we will make fun of you while you’re gone.
Since you mentioned self-hosting, I guess you’re talking about Matrix homeservers. Some are listed here:
https://matrix.org/ecosystem/hosting/
(Note that what Discord calls a “server” is not what anyone else in the networking community calls a server; it’s a confusing misnomer. Matrix calls it a space, but calling it a community would be understood by most people as well. Also, what Discord calls a “channel” is what Matrix calls a room.)
Meant instance 😅
Also luckily I’ve been training myself to not use the word “servers” for Discord for years now. Linguistics as hobby and computer habits making me bothered that they’re repurposing the word I understand as a computer/datacenter that acts as provider and all that.
But about your site, that isn’t what I asked for. I’m asking about a site that tracks total users and/or monthly active users, or medium-sized servers going by those metrics, like e.g. FediDB does. That page from Matrix.org, at least on phone, is more institutional, like a more resistance-free entry point for people curious.
Are there any alternatives that have screensharing
Matrix (Element Call specifically)
Signal
and thats about it.
OBS studio with whatever you’re using for video chat.
Please correct me if I’m wrong but as far I remember, I don’t think OBS has Peer-2-Peer screensharing.
hoserhobbes covered what I meant.
OBS creates a virtual webcam you can use as input for whatever video chat program you’re using. In OBS you can switch between and composite “sources” including your screen, media files, actual webcams, etc.
There is a slight learning curve but it’s incredibly powerful and there’s tons of tutorials online. You also have a lot more control over what you’re streaming than you do in discord. Sharing your screen is fairly easy.
I believe they are saying to use OBS just for screen capture, then use that feed as the ‘camera’ input for whatever video chat application you are using
