Say a friend is looking for a new system, and said person is not particularly savvy with technology, what system would you point them toward?
What do they want to do?
An iPad with a keyboard can serve the needs of a significant amount of users. I know people for whom it’s their only device apart from a phone.
A hardcore gamer will want Windows. Linux can play a lot better of games natively or fairly easily via Proton. macOS has some good ones natively but playing via Wine is more complicated. Some specialized industry workflows will require it. Windows-only games and applications are the only reason to recommend Windows.
Mac/macOS is great general purpose hardware and software. Good applications are available for art, science, engineering and productivity and it’s certified Unix. The ecosystem can be slick—Handoff from/to iPhone, unlock with Watch, TimeMachine backups, etc. Support people are usually native speakers from the same country. Some good native games and some through Wine are possible but Window and Linux have significantly more.
Linux can work for basic email, productivity and web browsing. Gaming choices are better than macOS but Windows is still better. They don’t have to worry about ads or the next interface fad being forced on them. They’ll likely need a bit more hand-holding and support down the road. They’ll need a Linux guy but they can be up and running on old/cheap hardware.
Point blank generic recommendation? MacOS.
Otherwise, Linux is the endgame, so it’s a matter of talking to the person to see what software is essential for them.
I wouldnt dare recommending something that most cant use, simply because they cant buy, beyond that there ethical considerarions, Apple is famous for ecosystem lockin which is extremely unethical
Linux Mint
Depends on what they need it for.
Gaming, rendering, anything that needs lots of power and driver support - Windows
Music production, video editing, graphic design - MacOS
Programming, or people who want full control over their system - Linux
Don’t listen to Apple fanboys. You absolutely do not need to spend $1000 to take notes and browse the internet.
Nearing my 60s, very satisfied Linux Mint user. Obviously, it all depends all what expects from the computer.
Absolutely depends on the use case.
Are they buying a new computer to be a jack-of-all-trades? Simple, they should get either a windows computer or a Mac that suits their needs, depending on what they’re comfortable with and what gets you a better price to quality ratio.
Are they on an old computer of specs that are good enough for today? I’d say either windows or Linux, depending on what software they’ll need to use.
Are they on an old computer of not the best specs? Either Linux or (trigger warning) chromeOS flex, since both can certainly revive an old computer, and this again depends on what they’ll need to use but also what UX they want.
Are they buying something new for a simple workflow? I’d say a Chromebook, sure many of them are shit, but frankly, if all you need is web browsing and maybe some android and Linux apps through the VM containers, it’s actually alright, even despite it being google based vendor lock-in. They also have a decade of support as standard iirc, and if it has issues, the reset functionality is actually incredibly easy.
Bare in mind, all of these have downsides and upsides, different visibility to the general, non tech savvy public, and different hardware, software, compatibility, etc.
If they’re only doing web stuff, I’d recommend ChromeOS on a Chromebook+ tbh.
Most users never use anything more than that and web-based apps will be more than enough for what they’re likely to use. It’s also ideal for those not tech savvy. Plus can use android apps too if needed so it can be used as a big tablet.
But of the 3, I’d probably chose Linux for them. But you’ll have to expect to still be the tech support. That’s why I say ChromeOS - it’s used by kids a lot for a reason
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted here, Chromebooks are a solid option as basically a web terminal, or even for some slightly more demanding workflows that are supported, although it’s not for many people.
I for one bought a Thinkpad 11e 5th gen off a friend for $10AUD (what a friggin steal), which had windows 10 on it and was incredibly slow (hence the friends price), but I then flashed chromeOS flex on it and the battery life was insane, even with more than 20 tabs open all the time as well as crosvm Debian running constantly so I can run vscode.
Currently, since I graduated, I now use it as a throw around laptop for browsing news articles and Lemmy, and somehow I’ve not needed to charge it for I believe 2 or 3 days so far, and it’s at 53% with a battery degraded to 66% of its original capacity.
Although, it is on the chromeOS flex support list so it makes sense as to how it’s so well optimised. If I weren’t however using this specific device, I would’ve just chucked fedora or another Linux distro on it, since those work pretty well too.
Nah I get why - it’s mostly a matter of perspective. Many had to deal with crappy school-supplied Chromebooks or the cheapest model their non-tech parents bought them for under $150. Or early models. And those were very poor implementations. Still are. I have a weak tablet style model and it takes a while to get going. My wife though, she has a Chromebook as her personal laptop, a higher end model from 7 years ago and it’s still stupidly good and fast for a computer that old. But it also cost a lot more too - can’t remember exactly how much but closer to $500-600 range. Was pre-Chromebook+ but all the specs were above those requirements. She uses it for browsing and web stuff primarily and it only ever causes issues when she forgets to update it for a few months and then wonders why she can’t video call her parents.
If all you’ve used is a shit one, you’re going to assume they’re all shit - it’s unfortunate that they “can run” on a potato and they sell them like that too which they really shouldn’t. I also understand that I didn’t choose one of the three options so would get discussed for that. And also, I get why some might not want to support anything Google-related too.
Yeah I fully agree. Even worse, millions of students being given crappy Chromebooks really built a culture of despising the entire platform, which spread elsewhere. It’s just like iPhone users writing off android phones because “they’re cheap trash,” when all they’ve looked at are supermarket prepaids.
And yeah, high quality Chromebooks are prevalent too, it’s just you need to know where to look. I’ve personally been quite interested in the Lenovo Chromebook plus 14, since it’s really a good look into how, despite the unsavoury reputation of the Chromebook brand, it is actually a really nice arm based laptop with MacBook like build quality, great screen, and has incredible battery life, although I do hate how arm Chromebooks are completely locked to google firmware without a proper way to run anything else on it.
What is actually deplorable though is the fact some companies still sell 16gb eMMC Chromebooks, which isn’t even enough for simple school tasks that aren’t exclusively browser based. I’d say 32gb eMMC is a much easier pill to swallow since you can actually store at least something without having updates be its slow agonising death
I use Linux Mint
Steam games work on Linux Mint without issues, or at least I was lucky enough not to have issues so far.
Linux alternatives to popular apps are very good (Libre Office, Inkscape, Gimp etc) and they don’t try to shove AI down my throat or demand subscription.
I also would like to include that in terms of ease of use and interface familiarity Linux Mint looks quite a lot like Windows XP.
Linux mint
I love mint, have you tried a KDE desktop though?
Yes, they’re terrible because you can’t navigate through their settings without a mouse. Tab only goes so far in KDE. I couldn’t stand it.
Stupid fucking answer.
I love Linux. I use it on multiple machines daily. It’s not for an average user.
Correct, I wrote a decent comment about the actual issues with Linux for the average user in this thread
If they are not savvy enough to do troubleshooting themselves or have no one to ask for help, I think macOS would be the best (assuming money isn’t an issue). Otherwise, Linux Mint.
There’s a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.
I generally wouldn’t, but I do have a iPhone for work and got a good price on a M2 a couple of years ago.
The hardware is better than most laptops and the battery life way out preforms my work Win11 Dell of the same age
If this average user doesn’t need to use Microsoft or Apple software, Fedora Workstation Linux. My dad, who is 78 and of average intelligence can use it, anyone can.
Linux can run on older, used hardware, has no AI, no Apple or Microsoft account required.
Bazzite. Fedora + drivers + immutable + gaming works out of the box.
Bazzite?
Really, you would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution for a non-tech person?
I’d want something stable and trusted rather than something new and hip
I fail to see how gaming has anything to do with my retired dad.
I don’t get the appeal of immutability. System files are read-only for users for a reason already. Don’t modify them as root unless you know what you’re doing and you’ll be fine.
What am I missing?
(Also gaming for a 78 year old, meh.)
Making them immutable for everyone protects users who enter their password in prompts without thinking.
How can the system be upgraded at all if not even the root user has access though?
The updater downloads an updated copy of your root system and saves it next to the one you’re running.
When you reboot the next time, the bootloader boots from that new system image.
Userspace applications are installed as flatpaks and sit in a writeable directory.And “the updater” is what? A program running as [not root]? How does it have write access if nothing does?
It’s the package manager. And it doesn’t have write access to your installed root either.
It doesn’t change anything on your installed file system at all, it installs a new system next to it.
What you’re missing is that the question was what would you recommend to the average user.
Exactly, so there should be no reason to edit sensitive system files in either case. Great, further to my point.
Okay? I don’t understand this reaction in this context. I’m just making statements lol. Not yelling at you.
I’m not an immutable guy, but from what I heard it’s more of a way to address programs and dependency hell, less the user modifying system code. Correct me if I am wrong
If you pick the correct hardware. Which is a crap shoot per distro, bazzite included.
MacOS if they can afford it. Otherwise Linux Mint.
What the other replies shitting on macOS seem to be overlooking is the support Apple provides.
Got stuck on something? call the support line or web chat.
Want to go to a training session? go to a local store.
All this stuff is super important for a novice who wants to learn without feeling dependent on their tech friend.
This is what keeps Apple in business - they are very easy to use. Someone with zero technical skill can point at pictograms and open and close things. You could change the language to something you can’t read and use most features without an issue.
it reminds me of memes like this.
And hey, failing that, Linux Mint. It works at least.
There’s a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.
said person is not particularly savvy with technology
Maybe the rule to be learned is read the post.
So you’re saying that it’s a good idea to give an overpriced, non-repairable, underperforming, shit looking, shit behaving, toxic corporate assfuck trash system to a person who’s not tech savvy.
Are you part of some big brain trust?
Why is that? I love my Linux PCs but you should not underestimate the mental barrier of considering Linux as a new user. Starting with Mac OS is like a soft start into it. And the apple silicone machines are powerful af. I use one as ML server and it performs well. Oh and the privacy by design is still pretty good in Mac OS.
I tried getting my mom on Linux mint. Kinda made me realize it’s not as user friendly as I thought. I would go with windows or macOs if they just want everything to “work”
The problem i see with Linux is that we all seem to have to rely on interpreting documentation on some level, whereas on Windows or Mac people search a problem, some article vaguely describes the issues they have, said article recommends [Insert Software Installer Here] to resolve aforementioned issue, people are pleased their issue is resolved without actually knowing what really changed on their system.
Because it’s expensive as shit, especially for a new user.
If you introduce any system to a person not familiar with computers, they’re a blank canvas and won’t need to change paradigms for their mental model. Great chance for Linux to shine. Just install an easy desktop environment, and a simple distribution. They’ll probably need a bit of hand holding at first but that’s what you’re there for as the friend having recommended their OS in the first place.
One easily gets blind of the fact that it takes quite a lot of knowledge of computers to run Linux. You often see stuff that scares the shit out of a regular user.
The problem is the experience is not customized for a person who doesn’t care HOW it works. They just want to do their stuff without hassle.
I’ve tried this a couple of times and mostly I end up being a 24/7 computer fixer hotline and end up installing macOs or windows in the end to make everyone happy
I’m running Arch Linux and I don’t know HOW it works, I just follow instructions. 🤷♂️
Everyone has to start out somewhere. There really are minimal effort/knowledge distros out there.
Well if you installed and set it up by yourself you already are way more advanced than a normal user. But again one easily is blind to that fact.
But what can we expect of this user were recommending a system for? Are they supposed to install it themselves or nah?
I didn’t know anything about how to install Arch when I decided to give it a shot. I just read instructions and typed what it told me to type. I knew nothing about what I was typing.
Same as when I installed Ubuntu like 20 years ago as a teenager. I filled in my name and clicked the Next button a few times, and entered what I think the partitions should look like. Then waited to watch the progress bar fill up.
These are steps you have to take to install Windows as well… Unless of course you’re not installing it yourself, but that can be the case for Linux, too.
Overpriced, idiotic design, idiotic UX, whit UI, anti-repair system.
I wanna mention this: If there are niche movies/shows you wanna watch but you can’t find a torrent for it… the the only way to really watch it is the mainstream sites and those require DRM and if you run Linux, Netflix, for example, would run on L3 Widewine instead of L1 Widewine and that means SD content only…
so yeah… depends on how this “average user” really want to watch niche content… or is even comfortable with the idea of torrents
(I’ve personally found a bunch of stuff that I literally cannot find torrents for… so yeah… there’s that…)
I don’t think I’ve ever come across niche content that was available on a mainstream streaming site but not as torrent or on a direct streaming site.
Schitt’s Creek got removed from debrid for copyright violation so I’ve been watching it on Amazon 🤮
TempleOS
Yeah, the average user must commune with god.
This guy gets it.
The only real choice!
What do you like about it?
Its Jesus approved.
If they are buying a new laptop and macbooks cost about the same what they’d pay for a PC laptop, the mac is a solid choice.
I want to say Linux. I use Linux (and macs occasionally). Linux is great. But macs are also great and work very well out of the box. So does Linux, if the hardware is fully supported and if you don’t need any non-lonux desktop software. Those are some ifs.
Yeah for the average user, a Mac with Apple silicon is a great choice, you do not even have to buy new as a second hand M1 or M2 can have its battery replaced by Apple for about £160 and have a warranty on the work. The M1 for the average user is still more than powerful enough if you avoid the base RAM and storage. If you get really desperate there are also the genius bars, lol.
Sure you can pick up a secondhand Thinkpad for the same amount of money, replace the battery for less, stick whatever flavor of Linux on it you like, but the average user doing that by themselves and ending up with the same easy to use experience is unlikely. I would rather do the latter as I would pick a model I can upgrade RAM/Storage myself, but then I simply do not see the average user wanting to do that.
