Scotty

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Canada under pressure – How the gap in foreign interference response is eroding democracy | Research ( macdonaldlaurier.ca )

When Chinese interference operations in Canada go unaddressed, regional partners draw conclusions about whether Canada can be counted on as a serious security partner in an increasingly contested Indo-Pacific region....

Scotty OP ,

We can't make India and China and Australia agree with us on all core values ...

Naming China in the same sentence as Australia in this context is odd.

Scotty ,

Irrespective of the topic, I am a bit tired of this kind of journalism that accuses others - in this case, the "elite media" - of "cultivating public consent," while at the same time it is exactly what they are doing themselves.

That's a sensationalist headline that gives you the desired opinion (you don't even need to click) and a poor content ignoring major facts important to the issue that are not even mentioned.

Overall, they have a strong bias in narratives, it's by definition neither independent nor quality media imo.

Scotty ,

When average corporate media tries to find middle ground position ...

Is the "elite media" now is trying to "cultivating public consent" as the article says, or - as you say - do they try "to find middle ground"?

This 'advocacy journalism' is no journalism at all. It doesn't even intend to research all the facts but rather only those that fit into a certain predefined narrative (while accusing others of being biased). Based on this half-truth, they then give you a desired opinion.

This is inherently bad as it only aims to sow division and makes any civilised political discourse increasingly impossible. That's exactly what extremists from the right and left as well as malign foreign state actors want.

Scotty ,

This 'manufactured consent' is a very widespread propaganda buzzword, and from the way it is mostly used there are strong doubts that many people have read the book where it comes from. But Herman and Chomsky's book "Manufacturing consent" is heavily used in Chinese propaganda circles, there is even a Chinese translation as you may know (while other Western books are censored in China. Why?)

This is pure propaganda that leads any discussion always to some sort of 'class struggle.' It's always a fight. It's all about us and them. If you don't share the opinion, you are the enemy. In this setting, no other solution is possible. Period.

Canada deal on Chinese EVs shows trade ‘trumped national security’: experts ( globalnews.ca )

Chinese electric vehicles still pose a national security threat despite Canada lifting its tariff blockade, security experts warn, adding that nothing has changed since the previous federal government voiced concerns nearly two years ago....

Scotty OP ,

China is likely to invest in Canadian production to support North American sales.

Chinese EVs are an improvement.

Even if China builds EVs in Canada, they will bring its own migrant workers from China as they always do. Also, supply chains of these cars are fully integrated with Chinese companies only.

Chinese EVs aren't an improvement. It becomes harder for Canada to develop its own industry, and makes the government in Ottawa vulnerable for future coercion.

Scotty OP ,

@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar avidamoeba

It's almost hilarious how you are spreading the same pseudo-intellectual 'opinion' on apparently any issue, and everything ends up with the same pro-Chinese rhetoric.

Scotty OP ,

Doesn't it sound weird to yourself when you relentlessly and exclusively convey pro-Chinese propaganda points while accusing others of being biased?

During the last few days alone, you provided comments with no meaning, made inferences from books you apparently haven't even read, referred to 'intellectuals' you can't name, while constantly spreading pseudo-intellectual opinions paired with second-hand intimidation.

Why don’t you give up on this community already? Things have been increasingly not going your way here. Stick to communities where the mods and members are more receptive to your agenda.

Scotty ,

... outsourcing to the invisible hand [what?] ... ends up picking Canadian workers' pockets ...

These is a meaningless comment.

And Canada should aim to free trade agreements - with democratically governed countries in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and others.

Scotty , (edited )

we're in a good intellectual company.

Good. Is there also any literature or something you can recommend?

[In his book, Carney calls for upholding Canada's core democratic (!) values to maintain sovereignty and economic independence. He advocates for less reliance from other economies to uphold values, but he is not 'against free trade.' This is a misinterpretation.]

[Edit for clarity.]

Scotty OP ,

You clearly haven't digged into Chinese subsidies and economic policy.

Scotty OP ,

The burden of proof is on you, not us.

Who is "us"?

This statement and the tonality of most (your?) statements here says a lot of what this community is about. It's apparent that you don't even have the willingness to engage in good faith discussions.

There is proof enough about Chinese subsidies and how they differ from any Western democratic standards as well as on the mercantilist nature of China policy. There are a lot of good analyses. Feel free to read them to broaden your horizons (there are some good reports also here on Lemmy as I have seen) and then come back.

The 'burden of proof' is not on me. I am not here to win an argument. If you prefer to stick to your propaganda channels and parrot always the same narratives, you can do it either. It's your life, do whatever you want with it.

Scotty OP ,

The "us" in the statement refers to voters.

Yeah, and myself, too? And those other voters with a opinion different from yours?

It's a safe bet that you and your like minded 'comrades' don't represent the voters.

Scotty OP ,

The same poll says that Canadians prioritize human rights and economic opportunities in new trade deals. How did Mr. Carney pursued that?

That aside, it's just a poll that gave participants a binary choice. If you ask Canadians about their most important economic partners, they paint a different picture: They prefer the European Union (43%), then the UK (40%), Mexico (33%), and only then comes China (27%).

Scotty OP ,

The same poll says that Canadians prioritize human rights and economic opportunities in new trade deals. How did Mr. Carney pursued that?

That aside, it's just a poll that gave participants a binary choice. If you ask Canadians about their most important economic partners, they paint a different picture: They prefer the European Union (43%), then the UK (40%), Mexico (33%), and only then comes China (27%).

Scotty ,

Just proving Carney’s point.

You don't need to prove that the US has become unreliable. But considering China as reliable is a mistake nevertheless. Beijing will engage in coercion as soon as it can (as it always does), and the propaganda machinery will then use Trump's move for vindication. The tankies here will tell everyone that China's coercion is justified because the US did it, too. Whataboutism as we know it.

Canada needs to expand trade with Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and other democratic countries.

Scotty OP ,

And your comment? Where did the 50 cents come from?

Scotty OP ,

You may have (intentionally?) misunderstood the article as there is no 'undertone',

A comprehensive economic security framework with Japan, the European Union, South Korea, Australia, Taiwan, and Southeast Asian partners ...

It's pretty clear.

Scotty OP ,

This is not about playing off hostile countries but to find a way the benefits Canada in the long term. Diversifying trade is key, but China will still buy a significant portion of Canadian canola, for example.

Last year, Carney himself named China as Canada's biggest threat. Despite the US and Russia being highly unreliable, too, the prime minister's statement holds true.

From ‘Elbows Up’ to Capitulation and Back | The Tyee ( thetyee.ca )

It was a moment of global clarity. Prime Minister Mark Carney’s speech to the world’s political and economic elite gathered in Davos this week described global realities, past and present, with a candour and nuance rarely heard from a serving politician....

Scotty ,

Canada needs to build lasting relationships with democratic allies like the European Union, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and others. Carney's visit last week in China and the deal was a mistake imo. It risks to contribute to Canadian canola farmers ongoing dependence from a single market that is governed by a dictatorial government, and could make Ottawa vulnerable for future coercion as we have seen in other countries.

Scotty ,

This is how China argues, but it doesn't make sense. There is no such thing as a 'normal' relationship with a dictatorship like China (or the US). Canada needs to diversify its trade toward reliable partners in the democratic world. China will take advantage at the cost of Canadian citizens as soon as it can.

Scotty ,

You will have to ask yourself whether it was coerced labor that built your car. I for may part don't want such a vehicle.

I also don't understand why people are (rightfully) calling for stronger workers protection in Canada and the West, but at the same time welcoming Chinese cars built under forced labor conditions (Chinese carmaker BYD's plant in Brazil last year was shut down as the factory employed Chinese migrant workers under "slavery-like" conditions, the authorities said).

Scotty ,

If we want to fight climate change, we need -among other things- fewer cars, no matter whether they are EVs or others.

The rest of you write-up makes largely no economic sense. It's just another "the West bad, China bad okay" rant.

Scotty OP ,

As an addition, there is a podcast on Prime Minister Mark Carney’s new trade deal with China:

Canada’s trade gamble: Why the latest deal with China may do more harm than good -- (Podcast, 25 min)

Host Cristina Howorun sits down with Flavio Volpe, President of the Automotive Parts Manufacturing Association and one of the architects of CUSMA, to discuss the implications this deal could have on the EV market, the 90,000 jobs in the auto sector and tariff and trade negotiations with the States.

(Here is an Invidious link of the podcast if you prefer that.)

Scotty OP ,

It's just trade under realpolitik because the US is an unreliable partner and an active threat to our sovereignty.

This is even more true for China.

Scotty OP ,

Do you have any evidence for this?

Scotty OP ,

Yeah, the settlement over alleged spying.

I don't know whether or not he was a spy, but his isn't evidence. He allegedly was sort of a bartering chip, and he was not the first and only one. There are thousand of foreigners detained in China over 'espionage' for such reasons.

International experts from countries including South Korea, Canada, Germany, UK, Singapore call for global 'bridge' cooperation to break US-China dominance in AI ( news.nate.com )

A consortium of international researchers has called for a new alliance of mid-sized nations to challenge the overwhelming dominance of the United States and China in artificial intelligence....

Scotty OP ,

It's a false claim, but RT's title in the video says something else.

Scotty OP ,

There are a lot of problems, but here the problem is RT. It's owned by a dictatorship that uses it to push the worst of the worst and to shape the worldviews of users in ways that are legitimately very threatening to both Greenland and Canada. (But, yes, Xitter and Xinhua and many others seek to sow division by fake news, insofar I agree).