edge [he/him]

  • 22 Posts
  • 812 Comments
Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: September 24th, 2022

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  • CW description of animal testing on rats, dogs, and other animals

    I think a lot of accounts are exaggerated and/or mistake muscle contractions for consciousness. But the brain is intact and still has oxygen in it for a few seconds, so there’s no reason it should die instantaneously. The idea of a “head in a jar” or a head transplant does have some possibility to it, albeit very difficult and extremely likely to fail. But theoretically if you can reconnect the head to the relevant arteries or whatever in the few seconds before total oxygen deprivation and brain death, it could work.

    It’s a contentious topic, but there have been multiple studies indicating it could be true.

    The implication that severed heads may, however briefly, retain the capacity for life has been supported by a number of unusual experiments over the past century in the field of head transplantation. In 1908, Dr. Charles Guthrie performed the world’s first canine head transplant, in which he attached one dog’s head onto the throat of another dog, reconnecting arteries so that the host provided blood flow to the newly-attached head. Of note, this procedure took approximately 20 minutes, and while the transplanted head displayed some simple reflexes, it quickly deteriorated [10]. Dr. Vladimir Demikhov, one of the founders of modern thoracic surgery, repeated a similar experiment in 1954. The heads that he transplanted displayed complex behavior and survived for far longer, up to 29 days, likely because of the significantly shorter time they were without blood flow [10]. Dr. White took the field a step further in 1970 when he performed the first “cephalic exchange transplantation” in primates. Although this transplant involved cervical spine transection of the animals and thus continuous respiratory support, the two heads displayed a normal awake EEG pattern after the surgery [10]. In 2015, Dr. Ping Ren performed a similar experiment with mice, and in one notable example, was able to keep the animals alive for six months [10]. While the science-fiction trope of a "brain in a jar” is impossible for the time being, these experiments clearly demonstrate that the long-term survival of a transplanted head is quite possible. This, in addition to the 1975 [7] and 2013 [9] studies discussed above, suggests that there is no functional difference between the brain of an executed human and the brain of an intact human, for at least several seconds post-decapitation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9930870

    (Emphasis mine)

    If a head can be transplanted as those studies indicate, it must be alive for at least a few seconds.

    The same paper gives arguments against the idea of retained consciousness (right under the section I quoted), but the studies mentioned in that section still seem to indicate about 3 seconds before unconsciousness in rats.

    Like I said above, from a logical perspective it makes sense. The brain is kind of the only thing that directly matters in regards to death. Every form of death besides direct damage to the brain is ultimately the brain dying because some system required to keep it alive failed. Since the brain isn’t damaged and still has oxygen in it, it should be alive for those few seconds before the oxygen runs out. I think direct and widespread destruction of the brain is probably the only way to truly guarantee near or effectively instantaneous death.

    continuing from the last block, but getting kind of off topic and into very dubious unscientific speculation on my part

    That’s possibly why destruction of the brain makes me more uncomfortable than other forms of death, immediate cessation of the self feels wrong, like the brain should be allowed to have a couple seconds to process the fact that it’s over.

    I’ve seen a (non-scientific) theory that the idea of “heaven” could actually be the brain releasing endorphins upon death to make those final moments blissful. If true (and again it’s a completely non-scientific theory with no real evidence to back it up afaik), I think everyone would deserve to experience that instead of dying immediately. It could explain some people who have near death experiences claiming to have seen heaven. But I don’t know if the short time the brain is alive is really enough for that theory to be true.





  • (CW: Discussion of self harm and the description of the execution)

    Something seems wrong here. What nitrogen does is replace the oxygen and CO2 in your lungs. Our self preservation instinct doesn’t actually respond to a lack of oxygen, but a build-up of CO2. Because of that, nothing is felt when it’s all replaced by an inert gas (which, being inert, doesn’t do anything to your body directly). It’s actually a popularly recommended method among euthanasia advocates and as far as I can tell is the quickest, most painless, most peaceful way to (CW) commit suicide. If I eventually do it, it’s probably going to be with that method, but with Helium since it’s much easier to get.

    With all that said, nitrogen shouldn’t cause the reactions described, so I have no idea how they happened. My best guess is that it was his last (purposeful, not instinctive) attempt at saving himself. Which seems like it would be present in every method where they’re conscious at the start. But that doesn’t fully match with the “spasms and seizure-like movements”.

    Regardless, while it’s probably the best method for someone who wants to die, clearly it doesn’t seem great for executions. Of course executions aren’t great in the first place, but one where the person is at least quickly anesthetized might be the least inhumane.

    Edit: maybe he wasn’t thrashing purposefully, but rather tried to hold his breath (or both), which meant the nitrogen didn’t quickly replace the CO2, so he experienced the typical form of asphyxiation before the nitrogen could do anything. That would explain the deep gasping breaths at the end, he couldn’t hold it any longer. That also explains why he was alive and moving for at least two minutes. Inert gas asphyxiation is supposed to be quicker than that afaik.



  • I’ve actually used a hypothetical Texas as an analogy for the Donbass. Although the hypothetical Texas is almost nothing like the current Texas.

    Imagine Texas was a majority Mexican-American.

    Imagine if the president was a Mexican-American from Texas. Texas voted for him by 80%.

    Imagine that president got couped because he tried to stay neutral between Mexico and Canada, who are bitter rivals.

    Imagine the new government believes everything Mexican is bad. They pass laws requiring English in official settings, including schools, where Texas had previously been using Spanish. Also requiring a majority of creative works made in any part of America to be English. They consider Mexico evil and all Mexicans bad.

    All of this worries the majority Mexican-American population of Texas. They decide it’s no longer safe to be part of America. They try to secede and make their own country (maybe with a little covert help from Mexico) and America responds by bombing them, including civilian areas, starting an almost decade long war in the state.

    Then after 8 years Mexico finally intervenes by invading America, annexing Texas according the will of the people.