What’s your take on this?
Yeah I think we should bring back exposure honestly.
My take is that you keep posting hot takes on here, trying to stir the pot, and then when called out you say it’s just a joke bro
Hot takes? If OP wanted to try a hot take, they could try something not from the 2001 MRA handbook.
I mean, it’s the mgtow instance…
hot takes on here, trying to stir the pot
We shall call it “hot pot”
I’m in serious mode right now.
I support the woman’s choice to have a child or not, without government interference either way (eg: Forced Abortions or Forced Births).
I also support paper abortions.
That’s not equal. Women can’t abandon the baby after it’s born either. It takes two to make a baby. Men have the final say over their own bodies just as women do.
Genuinely curious, how is it not equal that when abortion is available, the male has no way of saying “I don’t want a child”
Youre right, it takes two to have a child. Condoms still break, birth control fails, people lie. The entire reason we want abortions to be legal is for the edge cases exactly like this so they don’t have to resort to unsafe pregnancies or having an unwanted child.
In the US, in some states, even if you try to simply run away the gal is forced to put down any name as the father, and he will be held accountable for the child whether he agreed or not.
Genuinely curious, how is it not equal that when abortion is available, the male has no way of saying “I don’t want a child”
Because in that case, only one parent can abandon the child. That’s not equal. It’s saying men have no real responsibility for their children, only women do.
The entire reason we want abortions to be legal is for the edge cases exactly like this
No, the reason we have abortions is that pregnancy is harmful for women. It cripples you for weeks. It makes you unable to work for months. Women die every year from pregnancy complications. Abortion is about the woman’s right to healthcare, not the insentient clump of cells. Parental rights are about the live baby.
In the US, in some states, even if you try to simply run away the gal is forced to put down any name as the father, and he will be held accountable for the child whether he agreed or not.
Which he should be, because it’s his baby. He made it just as much as the woman did. The man’s time to opt out is different from the woman’s because of biology, but he still had the opportunity to opt out.
Ahh so you’re just going to victim blame gotcha. You don’t even pretend to have a solution, just that well the man had sex so it’s his fault. Even though my entire message was explicity for the people trapped into this situation similar to how many woman are forced to continue a pregnancy.
That’s literally reality. The baby is the result of a man and a woman having sex, not just the woman. The baby is both parents’ child, not just one’s parent. There isn’t a “solution”, because that’s not a problem. It WOULD be a problem if one could abandon their child with no consequences, which is why they can’t.
The woman can make the choice themselves. In a world where the male isn’t forced into subservience, the woman makes a responsible choice about what they want to do before having the child. Simple as. No one is forcing them to have the child, but the woman can force the male to be? Nope sorry, unless you have a solution that doesn’t resort to victim blaming I’m not buying it.
When you punch a wall, you may not be intending for a whole to form, but you still have to pay to fix it. When you have sex, you may not be intending to have a child, but you still have the responsibility to care for it. Because nobody else made the kid, you did. Reality is not victim blaming.
Your analogy fails since a wall only needs to be repaired once for a single action. I imagine you believe that a man can’t force a woman to have an abortion, so why should a woman be able to force a man to pay her for 18 years, even when he would rather the woman not go through the pain of having a child and having an abortion.
Woman doesn’t want to have an abortion? Then they can choose to keep the child with the knowledge that the father didn’t choose to have one.
The only reason child support exists in the first place is because the government doesn’t want to pay for people’s kids. If we had safety nets for mothers this wouldn’t even be a topic.
You still have not convinced me that men should have absolutely no say in whether or not they have a child after any of the above mistakes are made, they’re forced into it, or lied to. In every other situation I agree, the father made a choice to have a child and should be expected to help. But you’re being disingenuous and saying “All men bad” and not arguing in good faith, so, again, fuck off with your victim blaming bullshit, all you’re doing is making people already agreeing with you not want to agree with you.
I mean for the same period of time abortion is allowed.
That doesn’t change anything. If the child is born, it’s yours, and you can’t abandon it. The child has a right to a parent, and you are the parent.
Most (all?) states have safe haven places where you absolutely can abandon your baby no questions asked
actually, a child doesn’t have a legal right to a parent. for example, my birth certificate doesn’t list a father. legally, I never had one. of course, practically speaking, I also didn’t have one.
Alternative: roll out better options for male contraceptives and make them very easily available. Where the fuck is RISUG/Vasalgel/Plan A for Men?
Plan A would be a dope name for male contraceptive. Just down a shot of something
berrydragonfruit-flavored and you are good for the night. All the little swimmers are drowned.The problem is that women already have a function that makes them nonfertile. Its MUCH easier to simulate that function, and at the end stop simulating it, than to create a completely novel mechanism to make a man nonfertile for a certain amount of time.
Granted, the pill isn’t exactly great, but there are quite a few options for women, and they all revolve around roughly the same mechanism. The alternative is shoving a mechanical device inside, and getting to the uterus (while exceptionally unfun) is still easier than getting to the testes.
There’s also a big problem with RISUG like vasalgel (slight conspiracy theory alert here). If you sell a guy vasalgel, it’s a one-time thing. If instead you sell his partner the pill, you get to keep doing that every single day for potentially decades.
Comparing undesired paternity to undesired pregnancy is TIGHT.
Both absolutely should be allowed/legalized.
The decision to bring new life into the world should, ideally, be agreed upon by both parents.
If the female does not wish to be a mother, I believe it is her right to abort the pregnancy. We have the technology. The procedure is invasive and I would recommend her to try other methods to avoid pregnancy if she does not wish to be a parent. Even with an abortion pill, she still has to push all that stuff out at some point. It’s going to be traumatic. So it’s better if she’s on the pill, an IUD (which admittedly isn’t pleasant either), uses physical contraceptive (condoms), or just avoids PiV altogether (anal, oral, digital are all pleasurable to both sexes).
If the male does not wish to be a father, I believe it is his right to renounce paternity. But it should be total, all or nothing. He would never get the right to see the child or to call himself the father. This is a really messy situation pretty much everywhere. If you help raise a child, you should have some parental rights… coming from someone who’s helped raise a few. Of course, if the child already has a father and you’re just (as a man) helping out, you’re an uncle at best. If the child has a father but he’s never around, the mother has a boyfriend but he has no interest in being a dad, and you step up, even if you’re a family friend, I believe that makes you a dad, even if you aren’t biologically related to the child. I mean, every child should have a dad, and if their father isn’t there, the mom’s boyfriend doesn’t want the job, and a friend steps up, and the child calls this man “daddy” I don’t see anything wrong with it. When they’re both adults (that is, the child is of legal age), they can apply whatever label they want (dad, uncle, or friend), but before they reach the age of majority? I think you should be able to say you’re that child’s dad.
I am pretty much hugely pro-life. I’ve seen the best of kids, and I’ve seen some of the worst. Not like “We Need to Talk About Kevin” worst, but I’ve met a few who fear the inside of a bathtub and/or hot water. I’ve seen where shit goes in a diaper when no one steps up to change it for hours (hint: it goes EVERYWHERE, and if it’s a girl… yes… sort of anyway). I’ve seen all kinds of tantrums. I’ve had to settle all those things. Cleaned up all kinds of bodily fluids. And I still think kids are worth it. But that being said, I’m not anti-choice/pro-birth.
While it sounds good that simply pushes the cost of the child, if the mother can’t afford it alone, to you and me. Let’s teach daddy that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and keep him on the hook.
You’re gonna be down voted to hell but baby trapping is real, it’s rape, and there should be a recourse against it.
Lol. Baby trapping, while it is bad, its nothing even closely similar to rape.
Also gentlemen, if there is possibility of rain, bring your raincoats and remember, its not rude to keep your hat on when going inside. Even if the lady asks you to remove it.
But i agree that lying about birthcontrol should be punishable.
If stealthing is rape (which it is), then so is this. Consent was not given for unprotected sex.
you’re right. trapping a man into providing for a woman and her child for life is nothing like rape.
I mean rape is a singular incident that causes lifelong repercussions that takes years if not a lifetime to manage. it can financially ruin you. it can steal away your freedom of choice and destroy opportunities you otherwise could have taken.
🤔 that sounds awfully similar now that I’m thinking about it.
just FYI, condoms break.
It could be like some kind of psychological rape if you think about it.
Do you feel clever using words to compare physical abuse and taking away other person bodys sovereignty to financially harming other?
Both are bad and cruel things, but they are not compearable.
Condoms can break and parachutes can fail, but jumping from the plane without parachute is just moronic.
Not being clever. it’s the same thing.
you’re just victim blaming because you refuse to acknowledge that forcing anyone to do something through sex should be considered rape.
Did you learn fancy new word to use?
Im not victim blaming anybody, nor am i saying baby trapping is in any way acceptable, but it definedly is not a rape. And those two crimes are definedly not in any way compareable.
Your definition would also turn custody disputes in to rape cases.
that’s quite the amount of confidence for being wrong.
Many jurisdictions now center the crime on the absence of freely given or affirmative consent and also criminalize sexual acts with persons who cannot legally consent—minors (statutory rape), the intoxicated, the unconscious, or those with certain mental disabilities—so the presence or absence of capacity is often as central as whether force was used.
by your definition, having sex while intoxicated would not be rape because consent isn’t required. you allowed this by proposing consent is not a requirement to force a man to impregnate a woman.
by your definition rape itself doesn’t exist.
Haha. You are really a grade A mental gymnist. Bravo. Here have a star *. You deserve it.
I havent said single time anything about how i might or might not define a rape. You on the other hand wanted to broaden the definiton to include baby trapping, a completelly different offence that should be its own thing.
Look, mate, accidents happen. If you don’t want to get a lady pregnant, don’t have sex with the lady.
Victim blaming.
The victim in this situation is the unwanted child.
what an absolute brain dead response.
people can lie. “I’m on the pill” “I can’t get pregnant” “I’ll take plan B”
condoms can break even when a needle hasn’t been poked through.
a woman can still force herself on a man, they aren’t powerless.
This made sense to me with I first heard it and I thought some feminists agreed with it too. The Wikipedia article on it has some women cited as supporting the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_abortion
Are you having a stroke?
Are you having a stroke? If so, call emergency services. If not, do some research on sentence structure.
I mean, I understood what they meant. And I’m pretty sure that’s a common way to speak, even though it’s highly informal in writing.
