People who willingly fight for the exclusive cause of overthrowing democracy in favor of racist chattel slavery are absolutely burning in hell, should there be such a thing.
I don’t believe that’s why most southerners fought. Perhaps a factor, but not the driving force.
Were they not convinced that their way of life and culture were under attack, beyond just having superiority over other races. Convinced by the elite that did own slaves and whipped into a frenzy, very much like today’s politics against taxation.
Additionally, while they were undoubtedly racist, it is unfortunately the case that most never had the opportunity to not be racist. Their friends were racist, their family were racist, their government was racist, they never knew anything else. Is it fair to condemn someone to hell because they were doing what they were taught is good and just? What seems obvious to us in 2025 is not so cut and dry to a person engulfed in racist culture against their will. And never given a fair opportunity to change.
My point being, saying they were all evil is reductive and shows a lack of empathy and understanding of human nature and undermines the true root causes of racism to hand-waving “oh theyre just evil” rather than getting to the heart of what makes someone hold those beliefs
I don’t believe that’s why most southerners fought. Perhaps a factor, but not the driving force.
So all of the people declaring that absolutely is why they were fighting at the time is… what?
Were they not convinced that their way of life and culture were under attack, beyond just having superiority over other races.
… that was their entire way of life. That was the difference between the American North and the American South. Racism in the North was widespread, but only incidental; it did not form a foundation for basic social relations. Racism in the South was an entire fucking caste system which dictated the position of all Black and white folk.
The American South, ~1830-1860, was a brutal plantation society run on an aristocratic caste system that defined social relations from top to fucking bottom.
Convinced by the elite that did own slaves and whipped into a frenzy, very much like today’s politics against taxation.
And if people took up arms to lower the tax rates of the rich, they would be fighting to lower the tax rates of the rich. Just like the Confederates willingly taking up arms to defend slavery were fighting to defend slavery.
Additionally, while they were undoubtedly racist, it is unfortunately the case that most never had the opportunity to not be racist. Their friends were racist, their family were racist, their government was racist, they never knew anything else.
The widespread presence of Southern Unionists, who believed in democracy enough to notTAKE UP ARMS IN DEFENCE OF SLAVERY’S SUPREMACY and the presence of Southern abolitionists suggests that they had other options than being a bootlicking piece of shit. There were racists and slavers, and racist slavers, who did not consider the issue of racist slavery vital enough to defy democracy or take up arms against their countrymen to preserve. This is a low fucking bar - but it is the real bar that one should consider someone raised in a racist society to be able to uphold. “Do not violate all of your other professed principles to uphold the worst of the ones you have been taught”
As I mentioned, the average soldier on both sides was racist by modern standards. But only one chose to fight for the high and noble purpose of [checks notes] defying democracy to preserve the supremacy and expansion of a system of racist chattel slavery.
Is it fair to condemn someone to hell because they were doing what they were taught is good and just?
Sure.
What seems obvious to us in 2025 is not so cut and dry to a person engulfed in racist culture against their will. And never given a fair opportunity to change.
Never given a fair opportunity to change? What was Reconstruction?
My point being, saying they were all evil is reductive and shows a lack of empathy and understanding of human nature and undermines the true root causes of racism to hand-waving “oh theyre just evil” rather than getting to the heart of what makes someone hold those beliefs
Understanding the root causes, and understanding that embracing racism as one’s highest virtue is evil, are not mutually exclusive positions.
You are conflating the officers and the politicians with the rank and file. They were separate groups with different reasons for fighting or not fighting. And again, you are reducing the motivations of humans to “they were evil racists” which is reductive and shortsighted. The history is significantly more nuanced and disregarding any analysis or holistic viewpoint is counterproductive to determining the true causes of such heinous acts.
The world isn’t black and white (no pun intended). There are causes and effects beyond just the surface level. People act out of complex interactions of culture, politics, economics, and community. Most likely in their minds they fought and died for more than racism.
And please, chill out a bit. I realize that what I’m suggesting isn’t popular and is filled with gray areas but I’m just trying to be a good person who empathizes with others so I can better understand their motives and hopefully better convince them of the flaws in their worldviews.
You are conflating the officers and the politicians with the rank and file.
I’m really fucking not. The journals of enlisted men in the Confederate Army back my assertion.
They were separate groups with different reasons for fighting or not fighting. And again, you are reducing the motivations of humans to “they were evil racists” which is reductive and shortsighted. The history is significantly more nuanced and disregarding any analysis or holistic viewpoint is counterproductive to determining the true causes of such heinous acts.
The world isn’t black and white (no pun intended). There are causes and effects beyond just the surface level. People act out of complex interactions of culture, politics, economics, and community. Most likely in their minds they fought and died for more than racism.
And please, chill out a bit. I realize that what I’m suggesting isn’t popular and is filled with gray areas but I’m just trying to be a good person who empathizes with others so I can better understand their motives and hopefully better convince them of the flaws in their worldviews.
Yeah, no, I put up with this because I thought you might be genuinely misinformed, but this is no better than Nazi apologia. Fuck off.
Considering the “States rights” they were fighting for were realted to slavery and the ability to reclaim slaves that fled north for freedom, just fuck off.
I don’t believe that’s why most southerners fought. Perhaps a factor, but not the driving force.
Were they not convinced that their way of life and culture were under attack, beyond just having superiority over other races. Convinced by the elite that did own slaves and whipped into a frenzy, very much like today’s politics against taxation.
Additionally, while they were undoubtedly racist, it is unfortunately the case that most never had the opportunity to not be racist. Their friends were racist, their family were racist, their government was racist, they never knew anything else. Is it fair to condemn someone to hell because they were doing what they were taught is good and just? What seems obvious to us in 2025 is not so cut and dry to a person engulfed in racist culture against their will. And never given a fair opportunity to change.
My point being, saying they were all evil is reductive and shows a lack of empathy and understanding of human nature and undermines the true root causes of racism to hand-waving “oh theyre just evil” rather than getting to the heart of what makes someone hold those beliefs
So all of the people declaring that absolutely is why they were fighting at the time is… what?
… that was their entire way of life. That was the difference between the American North and the American South. Racism in the North was widespread, but only incidental; it did not form a foundation for basic social relations. Racism in the South was an entire fucking caste system which dictated the position of all Black and white folk.
The American South, ~1830-1860, was a brutal plantation society run on an aristocratic caste system that defined social relations from top to fucking bottom.
And if people took up arms to lower the tax rates of the rich, they would be fighting to lower the tax rates of the rich. Just like the Confederates willingly taking up arms to defend slavery were fighting to defend slavery.
The widespread presence of Southern Unionists, who believed in democracy enough to not TAKE UP ARMS IN DEFENCE OF SLAVERY’S SUPREMACY and the presence of Southern abolitionists suggests that they had other options than being a bootlicking piece of shit. There were racists and slavers, and racist slavers, who did not consider the issue of racist slavery vital enough to defy democracy or take up arms against their countrymen to preserve. This is a low fucking bar - but it is the real bar that one should consider someone raised in a racist society to be able to uphold. “Do not violate all of your other professed principles to uphold the worst of the ones you have been taught”
As I mentioned, the average soldier on both sides was racist by modern standards. But only one chose to fight for the high and noble purpose of [checks notes] defying democracy to preserve the supremacy and expansion of a system of racist chattel slavery.
Sure.
Never given a fair opportunity to change? What was Reconstruction?
Understanding the root causes, and understanding that embracing racism as one’s highest virtue is evil, are not mutually exclusive positions.
You are conflating the officers and the politicians with the rank and file. They were separate groups with different reasons for fighting or not fighting. And again, you are reducing the motivations of humans to “they were evil racists” which is reductive and shortsighted. The history is significantly more nuanced and disregarding any analysis or holistic viewpoint is counterproductive to determining the true causes of such heinous acts.
The world isn’t black and white (no pun intended). There are causes and effects beyond just the surface level. People act out of complex interactions of culture, politics, economics, and community. Most likely in their minds they fought and died for more than racism.
And please, chill out a bit. I realize that what I’m suggesting isn’t popular and is filled with gray areas but I’m just trying to be a good person who empathizes with others so I can better understand their motives and hopefully better convince them of the flaws in their worldviews.
The rank and file knew what the fuck they were doing.
Stop trying to make these people look like children who couldn’t make up their own damn mind.
I’m really fucking not. The journals of enlisted men in the Confederate Army back my assertion.
Yeah, no, I put up with this because I thought you might be genuinely misinformed, but this is no better than Nazi apologia. Fuck off.
Considering the “States rights” they were fighting for were realted to slavery and the ability to reclaim slaves that fled north for freedom, just fuck off.
That’s a strawman, considering I never said states rights. I said fighting for their culture.
Also is that any way to have a discussion?
“I disagree with you so fuck you”
Really quite effective I’m convinced thank you
Lol, read the articles of secession.
You don’t even have good misinformation.
So a hearty fuck you!
Edit: fighting to persevere slavery is fucking shitty, so take your “civil conversation” and shove it because human right aren’t negotiable.