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sousmerde_rtrdataire

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«There is no alternative»¡Comuna o nada(, 5%📈 en 2024)! «O inventamos o erramos.»

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sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

People here should debate rightists instead of criticizing fellow leftists.
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And more generally, as Viki1999 liked to point out, i'd personally go even further and ask for left unity in these difficult times :
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sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar
  1. You believe it's useless ? Perhaps because you don't see them immediately do a U-turn, "converting" to our side indecisive people would be useful as well. Criticizing the opposite side(, or denigrating people from our side for small sentences,) obviously seem less productive than debating them(, if one has the time for that).
  2. Don't take it so seriously man, he most likely doesn't really believe that people are born to be far-right, it's more of an insult saying that they were born with some innate cerebral deficiency, and that otherwise they couldn't possibly develop such p.o.v.
    And while i still believe that nurture is more influential than nature, i've also discovered that true twins were sometimes separated at birth, raised in two different families, and ended up despite that with remarkable similarities, forcing me to conclude that there may have been more to genetics that i initially presupposed. I know that political affiliation isn't determined by genes, and yugopnik as well.

In any case, don't hate yugopnik for that while ignoring all the things he's done previously. He's on our side, remember ? Perhaps that not losing should be more of a priority that some "leftist purity".

Well, that's only my opinion, feel free to disagree 🤷

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

If people don't denigrate him, but criticize him in a friendly manner then i have no problem. It's just the all too common "character assassination" i have a problem with(, especially for such little things, and even more among leftists).
If it's just an occasion to discuss about the influence of genetics on behavior then i have zero problem with this, i just hope that people here won't suddenly hate yugopnik just for that, which is probably unlikely to happen, so i shouldn't have concerned myself with it.

I suppose that i just didn't want to resist posting that quote from C.Johnstone.

That quote was what i was alluding to(, while remembering one time when many people on Lemmy falsely accused Nutomic himself of being transphobic, with people exciting themselves over nothing and calling for his resignation, so stupid, the same thing happened for Linus Torvalds because he wrote a harsh email to someone working for him, let's just focus our anger on more productive things than bringing down people on our side) :

To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one's suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one's own inclination. This is a second type.

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

As i said in another comment, he most likely doesn't really believe that people are born to be far-right, it's more of an insult saying that they were born with some innate cerebral deficiency, and that otherwise they couldn't possibly develop such p.o.v.
If i'm not mistaken he's often shitposting, it's an insult, that's all, not that deep, nor someone calling covertly for eugenics.

Anyway, if you don't suddenly hate him now, then ok, i probably overreacted and should have ignored that post.

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

it would be carrying water for the ideology of that slur

That the far-right is mentally ret*rded

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Do they really care though if i use the word stupid instead of ret*arded ?
Is r*tard some kind of official name to designate them unlike stupid, like jew, dwarf, or n*gger, hence why it shouldn't be used in the context of an insult ?

Well, w/e, ok then, it's not as if i had any problem with the "mentally challenged" minority.

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Yeah, ok, we're different from the right because we're differing on some goals AND on some means.
Furthermore, the far-right is just mistaken, everyone makes mistakes, obviously, it's not a genetic problem.

But i find it funny when he says that they're innately ret*rded, 🤷

W/e, i won't take more of your time

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Now you're juste ragebaiting me(, if not from the start) 🙄

Why does every discussion i have online ends up in a clash, even on Lemmygrad ?

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Do doctors still call them ret*rd ? And if they now call them mentally challenged, then am i allowed to use mentally challenged as a slur against someone else ?

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

"Ineligible for recommendation". Turns out that freedom of speech was when TikTok was Chinese.
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To be entirely honest, i don't know what our "values" are anymore.

That's the normal thought now, and not "At least compared to our declared current enemies, you're allowed to criticize our government without consequences" :
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In a speech of 355 b.c., Demosthenes rightly remarks that the most important difference between the political systems of Athens and Sparta is that at Athens it is permitted to praise that of Sparta and denigrate one’s own, whereas at Sparta no one may praise any system other than the Spartan. (Dem.20,§106)

That's the basis of freedom, and once we lose that, what are we left with ?
A bourgeois "democracy" where medias are owned by the capitalists and citizens-owned medias are increasingly threatened of disinformation ? When you're choosing the least bad and are surrendering your power to elected people that often decide in private, and almost never once through referendums.
A rule of law with many lawfare cases proving a lack of independence from the government ? Where money can buy good lawyers, and blue-collar crimes are treated way harsher for the same sum of money stolen than white-collar crimes ? And the latter is even legalized under fiscal "optimization", and laws promoted by their lobbying.

Without painting other countries as even worse, what values are we left with ?
I literally have hundreds of such examples : https://x.com/i/status/2012799140061659566
That is even more shocking than censorship : https://x.com/i/status/2014796564624253394
And many dozens of journalists because they were supporting Russia https://x.com/i/status/2014655503616405681
And our "leaders" don't seem to realize that critizing ourselves is the basis of our system(, and that unlike countries victims of our attacks we don't even have such excuses) : https://x.com/i/status/2012724357072892409
The e.u., u.k., and Australia, are multiplying laws restricting what they're deeming illegal speech. They already proved their intent with covid, and are even acknowledging that it'd be a dictatorship if they directly regulated social media posts(, but since it'll be indirectly through proxy organizations such as EUvsDisinfo instead of WarOnFakes, then it's all right 🙄).

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

There was him and Noam Chomsky, i don't see anyone replacing them.
« The free market mythology argues that the most ruthless, selfish, opportunistic, greedy, calculating plunderers, applying the most heartless measures in cold blooded pursuit of corporate interests and wealth accumulation, will produce the best results for all of us »
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https://files.catbox.moe/bza1mg.mp4

I made a short thread on the Open Borders comic-book(, cf. selftext). Here's one of the most surprising discovery

p.91, panel 3. United States Census Bureau 2018b. To reproduce my figures for the native population, divide each year's number of natives in Adult Correctional Facilities by the native population. Similarly, the foreign-born rate equals the number of foreign-born in these facilities divided by the foreign-born population. ...

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Thanks, i should have edited the post sooner. Each person has its own favorite themes so i didn't know what kind of best-of to make.
What's freedom of speech if we're only allowed to say things authorities agree with ?

And if you/someone is interested in militant songs, there are other artists here : https://open.substack.com/pub/protestmusic

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Thanks, i didn't necessarily expected some people here to have known him before, even if out of his thousand songs in 30 years, some of them had hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube.
There were live performances, i suggested on substack to make a copy of his account on, e.g., Peertube, but obviously it won't be the same, that's a huge hit.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Less success on reddit obviously, i suppose that i painted him as more of an extremist than he is https://www.reddit.com/r/fantanoforever/s/GLDuidzb6F (https://redlib.nohost.network/r/fantanoforever/comments/1qid5vw/comment/o0rdw8f/)

Even worse on lemmy.world : soumerd_retardataire : Fucking fascists at YouTube deleted the channel of the best anti-imperialist singer i know, who produced dozens of albums since the 90s ! in Music

Some more selections :
- His most violent song, directed at his landlord when he increased the rent for the 9th year in a row https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/letter-to-my-landlord ;
- « Who gave you the right to be a landlord, to live a life of ease while others toil ? » https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/landlord-2 ;
- « The average annual income of the richest 1% is about $700.000. The average annual income of the poorest 1% is a couple Food Stamps and a pile of sand. Smack-dab in the middle, $350.000, but that’s actually the top 4% » https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/welcome-to-the-working-class ;
- When i'm elected president : https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/when-im-elected-president ;
- The battle of Blair Mountain https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/battle-of-blair-mountain ;
- Gather round https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/gather-round ;
-The commons https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/the-commons ;
- « Here’s to love and solidarity » https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/behind-the-barricades-2 ;
- I'm a better anarchist than you : « https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/im-a-better-anarchist-than-you-2 » ;
- Pirates! https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/black-flag-flying-3 ;
- On Joe Hill : https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/joe-hill-2 ;
- On John Brown : https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/john-brown-2 ;
- On many more people : https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/say-their-names ;
- (Not what would Jesus do, but )Who would Jesus bomb ? https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/who-would-jesus-bomb ;
- « If I wrote a love letter to each corpse as it is carried, I’d never still my pen » https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/song-for-basra ;
- After the revolution : https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/after-the-revolution ;
- We could make the planet earth great again : https://www.davidrovics.com/songbook/make-the-planet-earth-great-again ;
- Among others.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Thanks lemmygrad, that's also what i think.
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As far as i'm personally concerned, and i'm ok with people here disagreeing, i'm now less interested in a worldwide socialist revolution and would content myself with a multipolar world in eternal peace, if we(sterners) ever settle for this possibility.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

hypocrites

Yeah, look at this ex-general, current member of the Congress, a classic lack of self-awareness, especially two weeks after what they did to Venezuela and are doing to Iran, and are threatening to do in Mexico/Colombia/Cuba/.., and the (parliamentary )coup they supported in Peru, etc. :
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No doubt that if Ukraine was on Russia's side, they would consider it a security threat just like they're currently claiming for Russia, China, Iran, ...
I think that Ukraine would be ready to rejoin the Russian federation in exchange for :
- a recovery of their territories(, even if they were given by Russia in the past) ;
- an autonomous status inside the federation(, it could be strong enough as long as there's no risk of western-backed remilitarization directed against Russia) ;
- a serious heavyweight economic program with China's help for its development(, i.d.k. what China would receive, but ukrainian poverty was a huge factor that turned them against their previous family/side, even if we(sterners) were clearly responsible for it, accusing their oligarchs isn't going far enough) ;
- the recovery of Transnistria according to the will of its population.
It could be an alliance or confederation that would include a military fusion, there's no need to go as far as formally including Ukraine in the russian federation(, or giving back immediately each territory without referendums, negotiations are more complex than a lemmy comment, i'm just exploring possibilities)
Of course, the west will complain, but nothing new at this point, they may forget a decade later, and historians will take into account the arguments presented in the russian speeches.

Anyway, we(sterners) won't care about creating a world where everyone's security would be ensured against (c)overt influences. It's not even discussed, much less researched. And if it's not on our mind, it's because hegemony is our goal, not living (united )in diversity. Hegemony, and hence we(sterners), should be opposed.
We may have many more problems(&qualities), but i currently don't care in comparison.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I think that Ukraine values these territories more than it values being able to contain&hamper Russia, but it could content itself with an immediate economic program and future territorial promises.
So, an option could be the implementation of a negotiated economic program, as well as referendums in its old territories for, e.g., 2030, and then again one ~last time in 2050.

In comparison, it's my belief that Russia values a friendly/russia-aligned Ukraine more than it values keeping these territories for itself. It remains to be determined if such alignment of Ukraine could be compatible with its election of a government among multiple political parties, not sure that banning all western influence could be done, sufficient, or even desirable perhaps(, because of the retaliation against foreign medias in the west).
That's why i initially thought of a relative control of Ukraine as an autonomous territory inside the russian federation, but perhaps that any agreement leaving Ukraine's military in Russia's hands would be enough.
The whole "security guarantees" that both sides are asking for is representative of the problem, since Ukraine will say that not being able to threaten Russia will threaten them.
So either Ukraine is proposed something that they desire more than their military/'ability to threaten Russia', and willingly agree to such negotiation, as said above. Or the strong takes what it can while the weak endures what it must.

The west obviously cares more about Ukraine's ability to hinder the Russian federation than Ukraine's economy or territory.
However, Russia will care about its security much more than we(sterners) care about bringing its downfall(, just like we(sterners) would care about our security more than Russia would care about bringing our downfall).

I don't think that there is that much hate between north-western and south-eastern ukrainians(, obviously there is once you start killing each other), the latter mostly fought against n.a.t.o., anti-russians, the e.u., ..., as well as against cultural/linguistic/political/socio-economical/.. ukrainian laws, and an overall change of their historical path.
Perhaps would there be some irredeemable exception to a pro-russian reunification, such as eastern Galicia, which Poland would pay a lot to gain(, if the local population is given a choice through a referendum between independence or joining either side).

Territories are a weird thing, we're ready to hurt everything in our path(, including erasing the local culture,) to gain what seems to be the most important possible thing a state could gain, yet won't like extending it through an alliance of different ideologies.
It's precisely because we lack experience throughout history in such alliance of different ideologies that it'd appear nonsensical to claim that if Ukraine joined (with )the russian federation, then it'd be (part of )the largest country on Earth.

I'd almost certainly learn more by talking with pro-n.a.t.o. redditors(, i.d.k. how long a single thread would take though, if i'm not censored before that), but let me know your thoughts if you ever feel inclined to.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You may not have seen the edition of my previous comment

What "Ukraine" - aka the current illegitimate regime in Kiev - values is of no importance to Russia.

What's the difference with the west then ? Aren't they supposed to be the civilized side while we're barbarians crowning ourselves the policemen of the world after having attempted to colonize it(, and continuing to steal their raw materials, etc.) ?
Or perhaps that there's no difference and they should just do as they want to since they're the strongest.

Those territories are essential to Russia's security.

Having a pro-russian Ukraine is essential, not having n.a.t.o. and c.i.a. bases(/ports/..) at its borders is essential, ...
Whether these territories are pro-russian or russian doesn't change much.

If they were to give them back to a Russia-aligned Ukraine who's to say Ukraine wouldn't turn back into a hostile entity again at some point ?

Yeah, i developed that point when editing my previous comment.
Especially here : « That's why i initially thought of a relative control of Ukraine as an autonomous territory inside the russian federation, but perhaps that any agreement leaving Ukraine's military in Russia's hands would be enough. »
With the conclusion that « So either Ukraine is proposed something that they desire more than their military/'ability to threaten Russia', and willingly agree to such negotiation, as said above. Or the strong takes what it can while the weak endures what it must. »
Russia hasn't decided on a complete invasion of Ukraine for some reason(, which can be imagined), and everything indicate, from the first weeks of the war and the years preceding it, that they would prefer a negotiation to the use of force.

And i think you are seriously underestimating the animosity that the people in the Donbass have toward the Ukrainian state.

Don't you think that they still consider themselves ukrainian ?
I.m.o., they just don't perceive Ukraine as pro-n.a.t.o., and consider themselves as the true ukrainians, while the other are fake newcomers that changed it after 1991, while painting the u.s.s.r. and Russia as an oppressive ruler instead of their brother.
Pro-e.u. ukrainians don't have a problem with capitalism, n.a.t.o. interventionnism, nor the increasing grasp of the e.u. on the sovereignty of its member-states. They also consider themselves authentic by picturing ukrainians as having always struggle for independence, instead of belonging to the same Rus people, closer to Belarus and western Russia than to western Europe and eastern Russia.
What i think is that they would like to bring back the rest of Ukraine to their side.

The rest of your arguments seem to have been answered above :) ?

(Feels weird to argue with someone from my side, i should perhaps take my lemmy.world account again)

Edit post-answer :

To sum up all these words : i think that ukrainians would value their western shift less than an economic boom and/or their territories so, if we suppose that Russia is looking for a negotiated resolution, it could promise referendums and negotiated economic advantages in exchange for the definitive loss of the ukrainian military capacity.

If we take things from the ukrainian side : you're proposed a possibility to get back your territories if you're pro-russian, among other requirements needed to have the votes of these populations in the upcoming referendums ; you're also promised, through negotiated explicit conditions, an economic growth demanded by your population.
In exchange, you just have to give up on your n.a.t.o. alliance.
I don't see why they'd refuse.

I don't think they're buying that they're on the side of freedom(, of speech, election, ...,) against authoritarianism. Nor that they'd join the anti-imperialist internationalist struggle for a multipolar world, against hegemonic capitalist-owned nationalists.
Each ukrainian is different, but ideological battles of the good side against the bad one don't seem like it'd weight in their considerations. So i don't see why they'd refuse such proposal(, only seeing the economic promise of the e.u. based on Poland for their interest).

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I added an edit to my previous answer while you were writing yours, and if you're angry/'the one who downvoted my previous comment(, a few minutes after you answered)', then chill out man, if you're looking for opponents then go elsewhere than Lemmygrad where we're all on the same side, don't picture me as someone i'm not.

the Kiev regime had no intention of negotiating

Yeah, they thought they could win(, or that they had to take the chance). Wouldn't you agree that they seem to have changed their mind since the last year, being now more inclined towards a negotiated settlement that doesn't come ?
I suppose that not, based on your comment. Would you say that they're simply delusional ? I tried here to imagine what would be conditions such that both sides could agree to it, as pointless as it is.

Here's the russian's June 2024 demands b.t.w.
So, i think that Ukraine could accept them, by asking for these economic promises and later referendums in surplus, since it's not forbidden to add their conditions to the russian ones.
I think that both sides could end up agreeing on these conditions. If you don't then ok, i don't see what i could add to what i said.

The Russian people would see relinquishing what they fought and died for as a complete betrayal and would oust any Russian government that tried to do that.

Even if it's a 2050 referendum from these regions(, after Ukraine went back to support Russia, Belarus, and the side it held for pretty much its whole past) ?
If they still don't want to in 2050, then Ukraine will have taken its chance.

Ukraine had a chance to keep the entire Donbass with the Minsk agreements.

Yeah(, the civil war kept raging though, even if Ukraine put anti-russian leaders in charge in these regions, they often had more than 95% of them voting for pro-russian political parties, not easy to overturn that), because they were interested in Crimea, and instead of cancelling their western shift they increased it, motivated by revenge instead of recognizing their wrongs.
Similarly, they lost Crimea due to previous pro-western decisions that endangered Russia(, making Crimea a n.a.t.o. port, overthrowing Yanukovich, anti-u.s.s.r. and anti-russia sentiments, opening themselves entirely to western companies and organizations, ...) It was multiplied under Poroshenko, etc.
They perfectly knew how the west intended to use them against Russia, how we destroyed Yugoslavia and acted in the Chechnyan conflict, or used other russian neighbours against it, but despite knowing the consequences for Russia they went for it anyway.

And that is exactly why they are incompatible with eastern Ukraine

They were pro-u.s.s.r. in the past, they can become pro-Rus again. As i said above, perhaps not for all of them though(, e.g. eastern Galicia).
And if you disagree and claim that Kiev, for example, will never rejoin its old side again, then we'll both disagree, and so be it.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

i am not angry

Oh ! Great then, thanks for saying that :) !
I must have misunderstood

No, i see no indication of that. (...) I think the current regime in Kiev is never going to accept those demands.

I partially agree with you, Ukraine wasn't aiming for a negotiated settlement in 2022 with its unreasonable demands that can only be asked of a defeated country, and they didn't care about multiplying the proposals or intensifying the negotiations.
It's just much less excessive nowadays, e.g. the 4th and 13th point aren't uninteresting, but it's still far from there, so Russia won't accept.

Why would the result be any different than in 2022 ?

Because they were opposed to an anti-russian shift, so could eventually want to reconcile with a pro-russian Ukraine, whether by nostalgia or more pragmatically to influence it from the inside.

I'm trying to see what would make Ukraine desire to give up its western shift, hence why i necessarily have to be looking for russian concessions.
It'd be easier(, but even more futile,) to just say that "there's nothing to be done, let's just wait until Russia invade the rest of Ukraine", but i wanted to see if i/we could find what a negotiated resolution accepted by both sides would entail.
Promising such referendums could weight in the balance towards obtaining a ukrainian agreement, such promise could also be useful to maintain their desire of being pro-russian, since they'd want to become attractive again to their old territories. Russia, being the largest country on Earth, may agree to such potential loss if it's worth it to them.

Apart from the referendums, a second thing that could weight in their decision to shift their allegiance would be money, but the e.u. promised them the same economic boom as Poland, a promise hard to compete against.
If they ever manage to outclass such economic promise though(, which remains doubtful), then i think that Ukraine's shift may be assured.

Realistically, they'll lose their territories and be demilitarized, not allowed in the n.a.t.o. But they may be in the e.u., and may conspire to wage another war while breaking their demilitarization promise(, just like they never intended to respect the Minsk agreements in the first place), i suppose that we'll see.
Russia may invade the rest of Ukraine, i.d.k. why they haven't yet, retreating from Kiev at the end of March and mostly defending their line afterwards instead of attacking.

It's just my opinion, and w/e, it's not that easy to find a win-win situation :/

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

When either the Kiev regime or the Ukrainian armed forces collapse the Russians can occupy as much of Ukraine as they want.

How will that happen, an invasion of the whole territory seem possible to you ?
It seems to me that Ukraine cannot progress further, and Russia either can't or refuses to in regard to the costs(, not that it's bidding its time).
I think it'll end up with a negotiation as said previously(, i.e. Ukraine in the e.u., but demilitarized and not in the n.a.t.o., with the risks it entails), i'm curious to know if you'd attempt a more precise prediction for this year.

That would signal to the population of those regions, who are now officially Russian citizens, that Russia is not serious about protecting them, that Russia lied about viewing them as an integral part of the Russian nation, and instead sees them as a bargaining chip that can be given away as a "concession".

I don't agree, these populations rejected a certain kind of Ukraine, so may like to be given another choice in regard to another kind of Ukraine, and as stated it would weight in the negotiations without costing much, among other advantages.
But w/e, i get your point, no need to discuss it further i think.

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

They are more likely to install a friendly government in Kiev

How though ?
You're excluding a russian occupation of Ukraine, so have you something else in mind to make it happen ?

I know that i didn't went far enough when searching for something that would please both sides in my first comment(, and even less in the subsequent ones), but if it's not through strength then it'll be through mutual concessions, i think.

And as said/implied earlier, using strength won't make ukrainians like Russia, while mutual concessions may inverse their western shift.

Anyway, i don't know the perfect solution to each conflict, but what should distinguish us from the past is to avoid situations such as "the winner takes all", in the case of Israel there should be a two-states solution eventually leading to a single state with a brotherly unity between israeli jews and arabic muslims, in the case of Venezuela they should have a control of their oil, and if they choose to accept foreign companies then it shouldn't be the current decades-long robbery but stops e.g. at a 20% ROI, we should allow socialist/islamic/.. states and other differences, and in every case we should treat others as we would like to be treated, which is obviously a laughable notion in international politics where strength(&'narrative management') rules supreme, a conclusion which leads to the necessity of establishing solutions such as an international army and tribunal, for example.
Or we could just continue to fight between each other so that we're on the good side of an unfair situation that only one side agrees to.
I don't know if it's true, but Russia often said that Ukraine can choose any side it wants as long as it doesn't endanger Russia, closing a path to n.a.t.o. but leaving them to choose the e.u.. Seems reasonable if they stay demilitarized, but it'd mean joining the e.u. over keeping their south-eastern territories, which shouldn't be considered worth it i.m.o.

avoidance

Just feel like editing because i expressed myself poorly( again) :
- If you're right and Russia doesn't need to make any concessions in order to achieve its stated objectives, then it'll be to Ukraine's detriment ;
- If i'm right to suppose that neither of them can do as they want and ought to both made concessions, then perhaps that the result could be seen as a win-win situation instead of a lose-lose one(, e.g. a frozen conflict costing them a lot each year) ;
- if we're both over-optimistic and Ukraine can impose its will on a defeated Russia, then we(sterners) won't hesitate and suddenly develop good sentiments, we'll be brutal and love it.

I've reread myself and keep having the feeling that i made one/multiple stupid mistake.s, despite not seeing it. Perhaps because Russia has a plan, obvious enough for attentive observers, or because i claimed a moral high ground despite lazy efforts at finding it, or because it's too late after so many horrors, for the naivety of the attempts, and/or some other mistakes.
From the beginning my thinking has been that both Ukraine and Russia would gain from reuniting together, joining the e.u. shouldn't be worth such consequences(, and such consequences come from what joining an anti-russian west would entail for the russian federation, as well as for pro-Russia parts of Ukraine).
It's not about becoming subservient to Russia(, as if Ukraine wouldn't become subservient to the e.u.), but about working together for a common goal, and even if it doesn't appear to be an ideological battle, there's a new center of the world to be created in the East.
Building new things(, that even the u.s.a. would disapprove of !,) could be more exciting that joining the west, it's not over thanks to the People's Republic of China, one last hope to protect/'bet on' ?

If there's the accusation that i'm working against my side(, and for the nationalists against France), because i should desire that the e.u. gains Ukraine/territory, i answer that it should aim to gain/join Russia if it wants to stop being the smallest "continent", switching from being the West to become the North, with russian conditions in exchange for allowing european westerners migration to eastern Russia, that'd include a total change of mind in regard to the p.r.c., to our neocolonialist practices, sanctions, and overall policing of the world, there are hundreds of conditions, in exchange for the united states of EuroRussia.
The u.s. may give up its hegemonic drive if the security of all would be ensured, there has to be conditions that would make them/us accept a durable world peace.
There's no path to either of these things is what i'm saying.

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

As a kinda unrelated note, homicides went down 30%(!) in a single year, because repression/violence isn't the only way(, nor the best i.m.o.,) way to lower criminality, at least she adds social policies to her repression : https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/mexico-homicide-rate-2026
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(AMLO was awesome, and Ecuador proved among other countries that repression without social measures is less efficient than the right depicts it, they should just look at what works, e.g. many studies point to abortion in order to explain the diminution of criminality in the 90s, people aren't genetically predestined to sin, it's almost entirely a result of the environment, of course)

Anyway, D.Trump shouldn't strike territories that don't want his "help".
If we(sterners) want less crimes in poor countries, then having a relatively same standard of living in all of them should be our first priority(, but we'd lose our advantage when buying/investing abroad, as well as our disadvantage when exporting products made in the west, a disadvantage that we've shouldered until now through our monopoly on highly complex manufactured products).
Also, perhaps attack the american buyers instead of the mexican makers ? I don't get it. Just like for the american druglords, one less mexican drug-maker would leave room for a new one to arrive.

If i understood correctly, they'd need to work 3-4 times more in order to buy the same thing :
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So much "justice".

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I'm perhaps wrong but if they sell the oil at an unfair price, while paying for the whole infrastructure themselves, then they could keep 100% of what the u.s. leaves them, and use it for the good of the venezuelans.
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https://i.postimg.cc/C5YpV9Fz/Screenshot-20260107-224255-Substack.jpg
https://open.substack.com/pub/gzucman/p/understanding-us-intervention-in
« In 1958, the 40–50 thousand workers employed by the oil and iron industries, comprising less than 3% of the country’s total workforce, earned more than half of the country’s wages. In addition, their housing, education and health services were provided by their employers.
In contrast, the common city wage earner employed in industry and commerce on the other hand, spent 48% of his income on food. Less than one-third of dwellings were reported to have running water in the 1957 national census. Thus, even if Venezuela reportedly had the continent’s highest per capita income at the time—US$743 in 1962—this wealth was concentrated in the hands of those who benefited from the oil industry. » (source)

It depends on how much the u.s. intends to rob them but, foolishly perhaps, i'd like to naively hope that D.Trump would then leave them in peace despite their direct democracy and egalitarian values(, until the next u.s. president).

A weird idea would be a national referendum along the lines of "Would you rather [u.s. economic demands post-negotiations], or fight an invasion ?", both to show that they're not a dictatorship, and in order to leave the fate of the revolution to their hands.

Through negotiations, these kind of demands could be granted as long as it doesn't exceed +10% of non-us products, reducing it to a selection of sectors. If it's understood that it'd ease the negotiations on oil, and be included in the eventual national referendum, just my ignorant opinion.

2026 marks the 50th anniversary of the torture to death of Delcy Rodriguez's father(, other informations in the selftext) ( www.craigmurray.org.uk )

Nor did they mention that the elected governments of Hugo Chavez reduced extreme poverty by over 70%, reduced poverty by 50%, halved unemployment, quadrupled the number receiving a state pension and achieved 100% literacy. Chavez took Venezuela from the most unequal society for wealth distribution in Latin America to the most ...

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

It's very close to the historical US invasion of Panama in 1989

B.t.w., Manuel Noriega surrendered in Panama on January 3, 1990

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

https://www.presidencia.gob.ve/ and https://www.mppre.gob.ve/ don't seem to load :
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But https://prensapresidencialvenezuela.gob.ve/index.php/author/prensa still works, as well as https://t.me/DrodriguezVen

https://youtube.com/@telesurenglish is worth mentioning, but does anyone know of a website with english subtitles for speeches from venezuelan officials(, ideally like https://youtube.com/@michaelrossipolisci) ?

This channel seem to be an equivalent. It only has automatic subtitles in english, but they're much better nowadays, if you want to give them a try : https://youtu.be/TMk-l6SNb4g, https://youtu.be/p4V7Qiu7NrQ

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Here's the full declaration(, automatic spanish subtitles translated in english works well).
Does anyone here think that they shouldn't ?
https://i.postimg.cc/fLNDctYL/Screenshot-20260108-231522-Firefox.jpg
The argument/fear would be that they survived until now partly because they were authoritarian&cautious enough to prevent multiple coup attempts that would have worked in a lot of other countries(, but also because they got through economically, etc.). What if the u.s. warmed up the relations only to get close enough with them to do a coup ?

I'd like to believe that after so many years they won't put themselves in a situation where the expected western betrayal has too much of an impact, among other precautions.
I also believe in their participatory(&protagonic) process(, its critics would prefer bourgeois democracies). A contented population is useful against coups, and if all goes well economically then the best is yet to come and they'll have many more reasons to be proud of their collective accomplishments.
They 'know what's at stake'/'feel the "weight of the centuries"' better than i do, and won't lower their guard, may there be no more killings&destructions.

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

(if you're french, and so many beyond the ex-director of Le Monde Diplomatique, e.g. 1, 2, and more, i didn't know/expected that they had such direct access to H.Chávez and N.Maduro)

More informations :

The Government of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela reiterates its international condemnation of being the victim of a criminal, illegitimate, and illegal aggression against its territory and its people, an action that has resulted in the deaths of more than one hundred civilians and military personnel who, in defense of the Homeland, were killed in flagrant violation of international law.
As is well known, within the framework of this aggression, the illegal kidnapping of the Constitutional President of the Republic, Nicolás Maduro Moros, and the First Lady, Cilia Flores, took place, an act that constitutes a serious violation of the personal immunity of heads of state and of the fundamental principles of the international legal order.
In order to address this situation within the framework of international law, and in strict adherence to the principles of national sovereignty and Bolivarian Peace Diplomacy, the Bolivarian Government of Venezuela has decided to initiate an exploratory diplomatic process with the Government of the United States of America, aimed at re-establishing diplomatic missions in both countries, with the purpose of addressing the consequences of the aggression and kidnapping of the President of the Republic and the First Lady, as well as addressing a working agenda of mutual interest
In this context, a delegation of diplomatic officials from the United States Department of State arrives in the country to conduct technical and logistical assessments inherent to the diplomatic function. Likewise, a delegation of Venezuelan diplomats will be sent to the United States to carry out the corresponding tasks. As the Acting President, Delcy Rodriguez, has reiterated, Venezuela will confront this aggression through diplomatic channels, convinced that Bolivarian Diplomacy of Peace is the legitimate path for the defense of sovereignty, the restoration of international law, and the preservation of peace.
Caracas, January 9, 2026.

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Marco Rubio gave countries some tips on how to remain sovereign/free :
https://files.catbox.moe/t2qa92.mp4
Thanks for the hope

PSA: it's okay to feel overwhelmed. You are fighting a multi billion dollar propaganda machine.

Social media is flooded with people celebrating the events in Venezuela and it is not abnormal to feel frustrated or even confused by this. This is part of the plan to legitimize these events. This is how consent is manufactured. ...

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Why would venezuelans revolt against participative democracy ? These accusations of dictatorship can't apply for once.
https://x.com/i/status/2007752956016476515
https://x.com/i/status/2007470177508860377
https://x.com/i/status/2007918112696614959
https://x.com/i/status/2007691484322247101
https://x.com/i/status/2007691205837238546
https://x.com/i/status/2007797250320412991

https://x.com/i/status/2007630518683349184
https://x.com/i/status/2007588951608177081

(note that a numeric identity emitted by our governments, as is currently being applied all over the western world, will obviously not protect us from the astroturfing of our government/allies, they'll use it to fight "extremism")

sousmerde_rtrdataire , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

They'll say he cheated at elections, ignoring that they put in place more measures against cheating than any western country : https://x.com/i/status/1817560455646236974
They'll also ignore that, when you sanction a country to death, you're forbidden to then complain about any alleged cheating at subsequent elections. They'll also ignore that it's our sanctions that ruined Venezuela b.t.w., or that it was attacked because sanctions were becoming inefficient since ~2022.
Everybody is calling him a dictator, and none seem to be aware that the venezuelan communes render such accusations meaningless :
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They'll ignore that some measure of authoritarianism is necessary when constantly attacked by the strongest country on earth : https://x.com/i/status/1258879766888886272
They'll usually ignore that socialism would have been more widespread if western countries didn't invade/coup/sanction/destroy socialist(, and anti-zionist,) countries, as hegemons do(, e.g., but in Africa and Asia as well)
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Lots of ignorance on both sides convinced to be true, as always(, and perhaps some hypocrites in commands who don't care about the truth nor believe in morality).
It feels useless to talk about it on the internet, or to assassinate Trump in retaliation(, since he'd be replaced), and we(sterners) will continue to picture ourselves as the good guys.

Our societies weren't supposed to be build on lies, if we want to act virtuously then we ought to present both sides of each conflict to our citizens, that's how it's supposed to work.

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar
  1. With Venezuelan President Maduro deposed, what do you think the people in Venezuela would do in response to the US (under Trump)' involvement in his deposition ?

Guerilla warfare worked for Afghanistan(, no doubt that they'll be called terrorists and not the u.s. troops).
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  1. Would Acting President of Venezuela Delcy Rodriguez (who served as Maduro's Vice President) pick up where Maduro left off ?

I.d.k., i.m.o. she should prepare for the incoming counter-revolutionary propaganda by, e.g., reminding everyone that the economic revival was going to happen and that's why the u.s. attacked, they'll need illegal propaganda outlets if invaded.
And also prepare actively for resistance cells, how to hide them, finance them, recruit, plan ahead, achieve a relative autonomy, etc.
An advantage to them is that Trump is hated by the (neo-)liberals, so they may repel an invasion by holding out long enough. Any last stand would in any case be of use to fuel the future nostalgia.
Here they/we thought that the darkest times were past them, it's not fair.

  1. How do you stay hopeful and optimistic despite the current (as of this post) administration?

I don't, but what's the difference compared to before ?
I/We hated the west for a reason, it tells us that we(sterners) haven't changed.

  1. Also, would Venezuela be better off if it were decentralized ?

https://venezuelanalysis.com/infographics/15642

sousmerde_rtrdataire ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

They'll then act surprised that we'd cheer for the US demise

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You can often hear the argument that the sanctions against Venezuela began after its economic crisis, whereas in fact they started when the oil's crisis ended :
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https://cepr.net/images/stories/reports/venezuela-sanctions-2019-04.pdf
« According to the National Survey on Living Conditions (ENCOVI by its acronym in Spanish), an annual survey of living conditions administered by three Venezuelan universities, there was a 31% increase in general mortality from 2017 to 2018. This would imply an increase of more than 40,000 deaths. »
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/bfcVHBTZaQ
More here :
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« The Government’s revenue was reported to shrink by 99% with the country currently living on 1% of its pre-sanctions income. » — https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2021/02/preliminary-findings-visit-bolivarian-republic-venezuela-special
Their foreign currency revenue also dropped.

These numbers were now back to a million barrels per day and rapidly rising.
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The truth is, of course, not that socialism never works, but that capitalists fear that socialism works so much that they fight it until it falls. That's what they did/do with Cuba or the USSR.

Other links :
- John Bolton admitted that the US attempted at least once to coup N.Maduro in Trump's first term : https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/former-national-security-adviser-john-bolton-admits-planning-foreign-c-rcna37968 ;
- Not only does Venezuela has the world's largest oil reserves, but also south america's largest gold reserves ;
- As easily debunkable as these accusations are, the official reason for a $50M bounty is narco-trafficking :
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- https://liberationnews.org/an-open-letter-to-the-american-people-from-president-nicolas-maduro
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- multiple gestures since anticommunism/anti-'worker's liberation from exploitation' is a bilateral policy, no need to enumerate all of his gestures towards peace, since nobody doubt that the u.s. attacked unprovoked ;
- They claim that the sanctions caused them to lose more than $1.000 billions(!) ;
- A twitter thread with a lot of informations : https://x.com/i/status/1827707466114568370 ;
- On the accusations of fraud(, which aren't related to the official accusations of narco-trafficking, necessary to present Venezuela's existence as an attack to the USA), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., that many disinformation to censor(, soon, they're working on it) ;
- Memories of Alex Saab(, infographic), hinting at a possible detente after 3 years and a half of incarceration, it didn't last and neither did this after Russia's oil ban ;
- Don't miss venezuelanalysis infographics : https://venezuelanalysis.com/category/infographics ;
- A little victory

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP ,
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Banned for 30 days for lashing out in anger.
I hope that the mods will reduce his sentence(, they pinned his post on Venezuela, and then ban him for a month for being angry at N.Maduro for not managing to avoid capture ?)

sousmerde_rtrdataire OP , (edited )
@sousmerde_rtrdataire@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Additions from other posts&comments :

If i understood correctly, mexicans would need to work 3-4 times more in order to buy the same thing :
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So much "justice".

Has anyone here ever looked at what a normal oil contract looks like ? That is just plain robbery and it's considered normal.
Once an oil company reimbursed its expenses(, cost oil), it won't ever gift the equipment/.. to the state but keep it to themselves, nor will they stop there because they need to make a profit, but even once they've had a 20% ROI it's still not enough, it's never enough, so they won't say that the remaining profit afterwards will be 100% for the state and its population but, e.g., 60-40 for the state, or at best 80-20, and they'll also lie on the real price of the cost oil, and prevent countries to do 100% of the initial investments/risks in order to gain 100% of the profits, and it's not just about oil.

You probably already know that Mohammad Mossadegh in Iran was overthrown by the west two years after nationalizing Iran's oil in 1958, but did you know that the same thing happened a decade earlier for Rómulo Gallegos, 9 months after implementing a 50-50 share of Venezuela's oil in 1948 ?
He wasn't replaced by a western-backed bloodthirsty king, but by one of our many western-backed bloodthirsty dictator, Pérez Jiménez, who received the Legion of Merit in 1954 for its anti-communist activities.
Guatemala also had a similar experience when it nationalized territories from the United Fruit Company(, 1954), or when S.Allende nationalized copper in 1971, or Syria in 1949, Congo in 1960, ... Because their ressources are ours.
They should increase the prices of the raw materials as OPEC did in 1973, unite together, and nationalize their ressources. They'll be sanctioned/overthrown/attacked/invaded/..

In regard to the apparent faster growth of the US, Gabriel Zucman says that the US's national income per adult has not grown faster than Europe since 2010, even if its GDP per capita has :
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The GDP is the total (market )value of all goods&services produced in a country, while the national income(GNI) is the total (market )value of all goods&services produced by a country.
The GDP of India will then include goods&services produced by, e.g., Coca-Cola in India, but won't do so in the GNI(, apart from wages/taxes/..).
Conversely, the GDP of India won't include what indian companies produce when operating in foreign countries, but the profits repatriated to India will be added to the GNI.
The United States apparently has a large negative net international investment position(, roughly –$27 trillion), while Europe still records a positive balance

From Our world in data again :
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(ouch)