@cjust@infosec.exchange cover

I do stuff, I have opinions. These are not necessarily my employers opinions. I think I'm funny.

I, like Mark Twain, believe that "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer."

I also believe that "Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker."

#fedi22 #infosec #shitposter #captainjustice

Searchable via tootfinder.ch

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@TheBreadmonkey@beige.party avatar TheBreadmonkey , to random

Just realised Salt-N-Pepa's Push It is about SEX!

cjust ,
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@TheBreadmonkey pretty sure that it's the song adopted by most Devops teams

@cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

This was my rabbit hole for today - a fun and fact filled romp through AI datacentre (& other) water usage discussion from Hank Green:

Why is Everyone So Wrong About AI Water Use??

https://www.youtube[.]com/watch?v=H_c6MWk7PQc

As always - Hank takes a complex topic and breaks it down into small enough, saccharine-and-sarcasm flavoured bites that even someone as woefully under-educated and attention span deficient as I can feel smart about stuff like this.

That being said - the episode is about 23 minutes and change long - which is roughly 20 minute longer than my normal attention span lasts for web based thingies. But certainly well worth the watch.

Not gonna lie though - he did indicate that this was a hard subject to talk about accurately, as there are a number of intertwined factors that the majority of people simply can't (nor should be expected to) understand.

Dear readers - I am happy to report that I am in the majority in this case. But on to the content of the make-you-feel-smart video:

Sam Altman says that the average ChatGPT query uses around 0.000085 gallons of water, or roughly 1 15th of a teaspoon. But then, at the same time, somehow a Morgan Stanley projection predicted annual water use for cooling and electricity generation by AI data centers could reach around 1,000 billion liters by 2028. That's a trillion liters, an 11-fold increase from 2024 estimates.

Given that Morgan Stanley does appear to release the data and methodology for their calculations, and OpenAI, does not - I am apt to find Morgan Stanley more credulous, and that's phrase that I've personally never used before.

So - OpenAI First

First, Sam is talking about the water use per query. But importantly, different queries work different ways with AI. And many queries will actually result in multiple queries you never even see.

This kind of like the folks who make Fig Newtons™ list the caloric count of a serving size to be that of, say, 2 Fig Newtons™, rather than say - a whole sleeve. [1]

However . . .

This is something Sam Altman knows, but it's not something that most people know. Behind the scenes, when you ask GPT-5 a question, it frequently "thinks". They call this reasoning models.

And it "thinks" by, like, preparing and sending out other queries and then reading the results of those queries and then sending out more queries. And then maybe, like, it might spur a search of the internet. So if you ask it a somewhat complex question, it will run an initial query and then it will take that response.

It will evaluate it using another query. It sometimes runs follow-ups until it's happy with the final answer. All those extra queries are additional queries.

So one query might not be one query. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's a bunch. So this in itself might multiply this 1/15th of a teaspoon by, like, 15.

Most LLM queries are at least 3 queries disguised in a trench-coat.

And then there's the more in-depth analysis:

Even while we're using one model like GPT-5, which is actually a bunch of models all stuck together, OpenAI and its competitors are constantly training newer, bigger versions that no one can use yet. And to create these models, like the system runs for weeks or months on enormous clusters of GPUs burning through electricity and water for cooling. It's not really fair to treat that training footprint as separate from every conversation you have with the model.

The conversation could not happen without the training. So if you wanted to be honest, you've got to make some choices. So probably you would want to spread the water used to train all of the models in GPT-5 and spread it across every query people make.

Problem here is no one knows how to do that accurately because OpenAI doesn't share this information, which is part of why it is so easy to get numbers that are both fairly correct and very different from each other. And part of why it's so easy to lie about this from either direction.

So - how does one get to these truly massive estimates of water usage?

We know that data centers use lots of water, but they also use a lot of electricity. And you know what else uses a lot of water? Power plants, specifically thermoelectric power plants. So, a lot of power plants work in the following way.

First, you make heat, then you expose water to that heat, it expands into steam, and that expansion drives past a turbine, and that turbine then spins and that creates the electricity. But then on the other side of this, no one ever thinks about what happens. It doesn't just vent out into the atmosphere.

And according to the US Geological Survey, electricity generation accounts for, get this, 40% of all freshwater withdrawals in the United States. Now, this is confusing though, because the power plants then just put a lot, not all, but a lot of that water back. So, a lot of this water is intake and then return.

So it's not apples to apples in terms of comparing water usage of datacentres to that of powerplants, but at the same time - none of this occurs in a vacuum, and water is a finite resource - whether it's processed for municipal use or not.

Every place has a finite hydrological budget. A certain amount of water that can be pulled from rivers, lakes, reservoirs, or aquifers without causing real harm. You can shift where the strain shows up, because maybe it's in municipal treatment capacity, but maybe it's in an overdrawn aquifer, or maybe it's in a river whose temperature or flow is already stressed.

But you cannot escape the fact that water is locally limited. A data center drawing from a lake is not competing with households for tap water, but it is drawing from the same watershed. And in a lot of places, that watershed is already fully allocated.

Guess where (cough Texas) a lot of these datacentre proposals are being submitted where local aquifers are likely already oversubscribed. But I'm sure that the local folks are putting their Very Best People™ on solving this and won't be wooed by intangible promises of many monies and much jobs as a result of a potential build-out.

But in the grand scheme of things - datacentre water usage is a drop in the bucket (pun like so totally intended) compared to some other uses - specifically corn farming in the states, which brings with it it's own set of peccadilloes, peculiarities and pork barreling.

On average, it takes between 600,000 and 1 million gallons of irrigation water to grow an acre of corn, depending on rainfall and region. Corn uses orders of magnitude more water than AI. According to the US Department of Agriculture, US corn production requires around 20 trillion gallons of water per year, compared to the total estimated global AI data center water use of around 260 billion gallons.

In other words, American corn alone uses nearly 80 times more water annually than all of the world's AI servers combine. And I totally forgive you if you are thinking right now, okay, Hank, yes, but corn is food. We eat it.

Food is very important for people. But that's the thing. We don't eat it.

Maybe 1% of corn is eaten by humans. A lot of it is eaten by livestock. But 40% of it is burned in our cars and trucks.

That acre of corn that evaporated a million gallons of irrigation water will get you roughly 500 gallons of ethanol. So before we even talk about processing, every gallon of ethanol already carries an irrigation footprint of around 1500 gallons of water. Extend that to 40% of the US corn crop.

I mean that may seem like whataboutism, but I see it as perspective setting.

When we talk about water use, it makes sense that you and I don't have a deep understanding of all of this complexity. You do not need to have the level of complexity that you now have having watched this I don't really need to have it either. The reality is some areas are right up against their hydrological budgets.

They can't have new uses. Others have room. Some uses, like irrigating the entire corn belt, involve staggering amounts of water that we've just learned to see as normal.

And I get why people jump on AI water use. Wasting water feels immoral. We are told our whole lives to turn off that sink while we brush.

I'll leave you all with some of my favorites from the conclusion, which I will undoubtedly shamelessly steal and quote in some form or another in the future:

I think that our entire economy is being wagered by not very many people making very strange choices based on an imagining of the future that is, honestly, I don't think likely to occur. Which is not the topic of the video, but I ended up here anyway because I started talking about what I'm most worried about. Like, I can't predict the future.

There seems to be a great deal of debate over whether these tools are actually that useful at all, which I can't find a place in. Like, I just simply don't know. But we cannot predict the future.

We cannot even, apparently, agree upon the present. But yes, in conclusion, resource analysis is complex, the incentives are weird, and we have a very long history of underestimating how dumb corn ethanol is. And all of that combined means that it is very easy to lie about AI water use.

And that's why I drink. [2]

[1]: Shamelessly stolen from the brilliant stand up comedy of Brian Regan.
[2]: Shamelessly stolen from the brilliant stand up comedy of Doug Stanhope

@jerry@infosec.exchange avatar jerry , to random

Happy Wednesday, friends

cjust ,
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@jerry Oh sure - they're all talking about balloons now - but we all know the real reason for the closure.

Mother fucking Aliens

@cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

ALT
@cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

Surprisingly affordable - even with the tariffs.

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@TheBreadmonkey@beige.party avatar TheBreadmonkey , to random

I think of little else

If You Had A Pole Stretching From England To France And Yanked On It, Would The Person On The Other End Be Yanked Instantly?

https://www.iflscience.com/if-you-had-a-pole-stretching-from-england-to-france-and-yanked-it-would-the-other-end-move-instantly-81713

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@TheBreadmonkey I wouldn't touch this with a 20 mile pole.

@cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

ALT
@JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange avatar JessTheUnstill , to random

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    @JessTheUnstill The group in one of the acquisitions that I worked on called it "prodvelopment"

    @RickiTarr@beige.party avatar RickiTarr , to random

    I bring a "We can fight at this Popeye's" energy to the workplace, that management does not love.

    cjust ,
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    @TheBreadmonkey@beige.party avatar TheBreadmonkey , (edited ) to random

    Would you rather eat

    cjust ,
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    @amiserabilist @Kierkegaanks @TheBreadmonkey @mothninja @Shivviness

    To me - this is the magic of mastodon. This started as a shitpost, but now I am

    a) more educated with regards to food
    b) definitely going to try this recipe.

    @arstechnica@mastodon.social avatar arstechnica , to random

    US spy satellites built by SpaceX send signals in the “wrong direction”
    It seems US didn't coordinate Starshield's unusual spectrum use with other countries.
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/us-spy-satellites-built-by-spacex-send-signals-in-the-wrong-direction/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=mastodon&utm_medium=social

    cjust ,
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    @arstechnica I heard someone captured some of those signals

    https://infosec.exchange/@cjust/115391975831493884

    @TheBreadmonkey@beige.party avatar TheBreadmonkey , (edited ) to random

    The problem with Indiana Jones is that they've used the most incredible MacGuffins so there's really nowhere else to go except aliens and time travel. How can you possibly follow up the Ark of the Covenant. You can't. Unless.......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Prepuce

    cjust ,
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    @TheBreadmonkey say what you will about the creativity of this plot line - but if the franchise goes in this direction it'll be a dick move.

    @w7voa@journa.host avatar w7voa , to random

    No, the Walmart promotional Thanksgiving meal basket is not really 25% cheaper than last year, as claimed by President Trump and others. https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/06/politics/walmart-thanksgiving-trump-fact-check

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    @LaserdiscTurtle@mas.to avatar LaserdiscTurtle , to random
    cjust ,
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    @infinitefinite@beige.party avatar infinitefinite , to random

    You can pry the Oxford Comma from my cold, dead, and third adjective hands.

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    @Tattie@eldritch.cafe avatar Tattie , to random

    I studied Artificial Intelligence for four years, and I am not touching LLM AIs with a ten-foot pole.

    It's not really about the insane electricity demands, the water usage, tho that's a good reason. It's not even, if I'm honest, about the disastrous effect on the sum of all human art and knowledge.

    It's because a) I've studied enough AI to know it's a trick, a sort of linguistic illusion, and b) I've studied enough everything else to understand that I'm not immune to such illusions.

    cjust ,
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    @Tattie I often use this when trying to explain LLMs to people

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    @stux@mstdn.social avatar stux , to random

    This was the very first computer game I ever played in my life

    My little brother got to go first but he got motion sick very quickly

    What's your first game?

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    cjust ,
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    @stux first game on a PC?

    Jawbreaker on the C64

    @nixCraft@mastodon.social avatar nixCraft , (edited ) to random

    Fun poll: What will come first?

    cjust ,
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    @nixCraft

    O Heat death of the Universe

    @joyousjoyness@mastodon.social avatar joyousjoyness , to random

    ✨ A Joyful Pause ✨

    Let's stop and reflect on something positive!

    Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments or just enjoy your thoughts on your own!

    Deep breath ...

    What movie have you watched over and over and never gotten tired of?

    cjust ,
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    @cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

    ALT
    @TheBreadmonkey@beige.party avatar TheBreadmonkey , to random

    I tried and now I'm naked and hungry and lost in the wilderness and afraid. Please won't anyone help me.

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    @Nickiquote@mstdn.social avatar Nickiquote , to random

    I was thinking that I would be absolutely thrilled about email being down forever, except I realised I would have to speak to so many people on the phone and also use the printer 20 times a day.

    cjust ,
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    @TheBreadmonkey @Nickiquote

    That reminds me - I have to get back to the story I want to write.

    ALT
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  • @jerry@infosec.exchange avatar jerry , to random

    I’m sure the Azure outage was definitely not caused by an MS employee needing a break from Teams

    cjust ,
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    @jerry I'm looking at downdetector - and to quote the Hulk - I see this as an absolute win

    MS Teams logo with redline graph underneath indicating a current outage

    @beeoproblem@mastodon.gamedev.place avatar beeoproblem , to random

    Found this on FARK. I'm thinking it would be pretty handy for shitposting and/or snark

    ALT
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    @Alice@beige.party avatar Alice , (edited ) to random

    It's a dystopian film about a small crew sent to the closest potentially-inhabitable planet to repopulate and save humankind, except they're the most insufferable people imaginable, so you spend the entire time hoping bad things will happen so that they DON'T succeed in their mission.

    cjust ,
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    @Alice "Ada and Steve"

    @TheBreadmonkey@beige.party avatar TheBreadmonkey , to random

    Whenever I make any decision I'm always sure to first consider how it might affect the stock market

    cjust ,
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    @Nickiquote @LoganFive @TheBreadmonkey that's one way to liquefy your assets.

    @Daojoan@mastodon.social avatar Daojoan , to random

    Reading about the South Sea Bubble and the tulip mania and the railway mania and somehow we still act surprised every time people get weird about speculative assets. We’re like goldfish but for specifically financial crises

    cjust ,
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    @Daojoan what I took from this

    Goldfish futures up - liquidate everything and invest in goldfish.

    @jerry@infosec.exchange avatar jerry , to random

    Well, I just found out ChatGPT is recommending people interested in cybersecurity to join infosec.exchange.

    cjust ,
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    ALT
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  • @w7voa@journa.host avatar w7voa , to random

    Received an email notice today of money sent to me and it’s not a scam. https://facebookuserprivacysettlement.com/

    cjust ,
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    @w7voa I imagine this is the "Hey we're sorry we got caught selling your intimate details to Cambridge Analytica" cash money payout.

    @arstechnica@mastodon.social avatar arstechnica , to random

    Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas
    Violations include digging without permits and dumping wastewater into storm drains.
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/10/boring-company-cited-for-almost-800-environmental-violations-in-las-vegas/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=mastodon&utm_medium=social

    cjust ,
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    @davidrevoy@framapiaf.org avatar davidrevoy , (edited ) to random

    The Centaur and the Siren

    ALT
    cjust ,
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    @davidrevoy

    What would John Pinette say about all of this?

    likely something along the lines of

    I say, neigh neigh!

    @cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

    https[:]//bsky.app/profile/kellyscaletta.bsky[.]social/post/3m2drr6fsvc2i

    ALT
    @georgetakei@universeodon.com avatar georgetakei , to random

    What’s Trump on the Reich-ter scale?

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    @malwaretech@infosec.exchange avatar malwaretech , to random

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • cjust ,
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    @malwaretech hopefully this does not cause any ... discord ... in those communities.

    @georgetakei@universeodon.com avatar georgetakei , to random

    It’s the Epstein files shutdown.

    ALT
    cjust ,
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    @georgetakei BTW - I just sang this to the tune of "The Final Countdown"

    @nixCraft@mastodon.social avatar nixCraft , to random

    A minimal static web server written in what now? COBOL? Good god. LOL.

    https://github.com/jmsdnns/webbol

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    @lowqualityfacts@mstdn.social avatar lowqualityfacts , to random

    Today's Low Quality Ad is for the Unihandmade Canvas Backpack. It will make you look like you go on Indiana Jones-esque adventures, when in reality you just use it to carry your laptop to a coffee shop when you get tired of doing your soul crushing desk work at home.
    https://collabs.shop/cucmih

    ALT
    cjust ,
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    @lowqualityfacts I forget - was this one before or after Indiana Jones and the Happy Meal of Doom?

    @mcc@mastodon.social avatar mcc , (edited ) to random

    Microsoft attempting to force people to switch from Windows 10 to Windows 11 has somehow resulted in a 10% increase in the market share of Windows 7 https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/windows-7-usage-skyrockets-as-users-refuse-to-upgrade-to-windows-11-in-wake-of-windows-10-end-of-support

    EDIT: Before replying to this post, please see this reply about how apparently the entire increase in Win7 market share is due to like one person in Singapore installing it a zillion times https://chitter.xyz/@Vordus/115301165497461902

    cjust ,
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    @mcc

    have . . .
    have we found . . .

    "Windows 7 Georg?"

    @SallyStrange@eldritch.cafe avatar SallyStrange , to random

    I'm posting from Walmart because Spouse refuses to tell their glamorous & busy older sister "Sorry I'm in walmart let me call you back." Anyway I saw this

    ALT
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    @maxleibman@beige.party avatar maxleibman , to random

    How to fold a fitted sheet:

    Step 1). Create a bootable Linux installer by downloading an ISO and flashing it onto a USB drive.

    1/193

    cjust ,
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    @maxleibman I'm pretty certain that there is an emacs macro to do that C-x M-c M-foldfittedsheet

    [ ref: https://xkcd.com/378/ ]

    @georgetakei@universeodon.com avatar georgetakei , to random

    On top of the worst tariffs since Smoot-Hawley in the 1930s. During the Great Depression.

    cjust ,
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    @georgetakei can we reference this round of application of tariffs as the 'Trump-Johnson" tariffs?

    For . . . reasons.

    @cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

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    @davidrevoy@framapiaf.org avatar davidrevoy , to random

    The Gift of Life

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    cjust ,
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    @davidrevoy

    https[:]//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt6iTwVIiMM

    video/mp4

    @gregthemiller@beige.party avatar gregthemiller , to random

    when gandalf the grey became gandalf the white did the pubes change

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    @aral@mastodon.ar.al avatar aral , (edited ) to random

    That’s amazing, I’ve got the same combination on my luggage!

    https://cybersecuritynews.com/mcdonalds-ai-hiring-bot-leaks/

    cjust ,
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    @aral I've used that clip from Spaceballs in infosec awareness training sessions.

    @cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random
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    @cjust@infosec.exchange avatar cjust , to random

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    @lowqualityfacts@mstdn.social avatar lowqualityfacts , to random

    Those Canadians know how to live.

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    cjust ,
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    @lowqualityfacts average canadian consumes more maple syrup than water" factoid actualy just statistical error. average canadian consumes 0 L of maple syrup per year. Maple Jaques, who lives in cave & consumes over 10,000L each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted