Me watching WWDC: “Android already does that.”
Me watching Google I/O “iOS already does that.”
In ten years all phones will be crabs
I knew there was a link between cell phones and cancer!!
nah thats social media
if only i could be as successful as mr. krabs…
I’m experiencing déjà vu…
EDIT: Found this thread in the wild, then stumbled upon it. That’s why.
Windows phone 10 had most of these things in 2015
It had everything except apps.
Ouch
… and the users
Oof. I felt the heat from that burn from all the way over here
I miss Windows phone, still the most intuitive phone UI I’ve ever seen.
Microsoft: “I think we really nailed this phone UI. We should make this the desktop computer experience too.”
Ok my god. I had an Samsung Omnia 7 and I loved the Metro UI.
Remote Desktop to a Windows 2008 Server and try to open the Start Menu by clicking a single pixel in the left lower corner… Shoot me.
Qnx had a lot of features before windows phone in 2013.
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I would argue that it’s the nature of having a mature and complex product. Adding new stuff is hard because you have a lot of legacy code / UX that you have to accommodate for. You need to move slower because it’s easier to break stuff in a more mature product.
I’d also argue that Apple and Google’s research teams are generally hearing the similar stuff out of their end users, so it’s to be expected that both companies are going to prioritize similar functionality.
That was my experience when I’ve worked on massive products. The complexity of the product impacts development speed, and shared understandings of user desires results in similar feature sets between competitors.
Exactly. You get it. At the end of the day they are all going to get many of the same features.
They both copy from webOS anyway, at the end of the day. That webOS from Palm was way ahead at the time but lacked the hardware and Carrier support needed to succeed.
Yes. Android already does all these things. But I think the things I’m excited most about are not on this list at all.
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A private local LLM. With the on-device context of my notes, messages, calendar, etc, I’m rather excited to have a more personal LLM than ChatGPT.
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Personal messaging via satellite. I love that I can stay in touch with people outside of a cell network.
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Did I understand correctly that this is only going to be in the iPhone 15 pro? Because that’s a lot more expensive than a pixel, more than I’d ever spend on a phone tbh.
The satellite im fairly sure is only pro
Satellite is on 14+
We went hiking and tried calling emergency services but my friend’s 14 pro couldn’t get any signal for some reason. Idk what was wrong, me and my friend with pixels had no issues though.
Where do you live?
This was in the LA mountains. Angeles national park
I don’t know. Pixels don’t support call vis satellite though
also excited for hands free unlock of smart door locks. not sure if android/google home does that.
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But there’s literally zero phones which can use it
I’d add to that list. If Siri is 3/4 as capable as shown in the presentation, that’s sick. Android does not have that.
A private local LLM. With the on-device context of my notes, messages, calendar, etc, I’m rather excited to have a more personal LLM than ChatGPT.
No need to wait for iOS 18 to have that: https://llmfarm.site/
That’s great, but the fact it’s local and private means it can consume my personal data and be a more personal LLM. This just doesn’t hit that mark.
Yeah I guess it doesn’t allow access to those things yet although I don’t see why they couldn’t add that in a future release. The APIs for that already exist.
A private local LLM
Running on a phone? No way, not without being absolutely horrible, slow or making your phone churn through your battery anyway.
Good LLMs are olready slow on a GTX 1080, which is already miles faster than any phone out there
I hear you, but also I would be shocked if Apple were to roll this out and it be an absolutely terrible experience. Like their MO is “luxury” products with “premium” experiences, it would not be fitting of the brand to have a piece of crap experience on their flagship announcement.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
You might wanna check with siri on that. Apple regularly failed at that even under the leadership of Jobs. And Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs. It’s already looking like it’s going to be just standard remote chat GPT. Hallucinations and all.
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Apple Maps was bad, yes. But they had their hand forced. Google started charging for their API (enough to cripple their app), and they had very little time to create one of their own.
That’s not happening here. No one is forcing their hand. If they didn’t release an updated Siri this year, nothing would happen.
But apple maps is much better now lederp.jpeg.
It’s not a LLM, it’s a much smaller model (~3B) which is closer to what Microsoft labels as a SLM (Small Language Models, e.g. MS Phi-3 Mini).
https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models
Microsoft’s penchant for making up names for thing that already have names is neither here nor there. It is an LLM, in fact its already twice as large as chatGPT2 (1.5B params).
I do think it’s a useful distinction considering open models can be more than 100B+ nowdays and GPT4 is rumored to be 1.7T params. Plus this class of models are far more likely to be on-device.
You would be surprised. If you haven’t tried to run a LLM on Apple silicon, it’s pretty snappy but like all others, RAM can be a significantly limiting factor unless the model is trimmed down to do very specific things to reduce the size.
I think It’s running on their “Private cloud compute” platform, not locally (I’m not sure though)
some things are run locally.
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As long as you own the fact that you paid more money for an inferior product because you think it will make you look cool.
I use Apple because it’s easier to manage a grandma and a daughter. Android is great if you’re technologically adept and can install a custom ROM, but I don’t want that freedom for my “users”. Grandma used to have an Android phone for years. I’d have to clean that thing out every few months because she would just click on shit. I switched her to iPhone and now when I check, there’s far less nonsense going on. It’s just easier to be the family admin this way. There are numerous other things that Android can also do, better, and for free, but at the cost of one’s time. It’s a trade off I’m willing to make. I reject the notion Apple is outright inferior; by which criteria? It’s also not about looking cool. Everyone has smartphones and they’re not special like they may have been in the 2000s. They’re the most commodified computer people use around the world. There’s no phone that makes you cool regardless of brand. It’s a fucking phone.
I would say the days of needing to flash ROMS is over, and Android is much more user friendly than it used to be. Especially if you’re on Pixel or Galaxy phones. My Mom, who’s almost 70, uses a Galaxy 21 FE, and loves it.
Not sure about the parental controls, etc that might help with keeping an eye on loved ones though.
Are you talking about apple copying the features but being a bit late?
Both Android and iOS copy from eachother
Honestly who gives a shit, we are talking about phone OSes. I dont have a strong enough opinion about any of this to care which of them does what first. Use what you like and move on mentally
Android can do satellite messaging? Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
I’m not an Apple fanboy nor do I use an iPhone currently but this headline is ridiculous.
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Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta
Perhaps in software, but I don’t think there is a current phone that has the hardware to take advantage. For now, this is essentially an Apple only feature. It’s a pretty good bet we are going to see some flagships released with it in the next year though.
I know that Pixel 7’s and above support it. There are Reddit posts showing they have the feature already. Satellite messaging is just using standard 4G/LTE from Starlink. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is only an OS update away for most newer phones.
That’s pretty cool, I assumed they needed additional hardware. Thanks.
Correct. It needs hardware and will only be on flagships, if the OEM includes it…
Another nice feature on the latest iPhone is the UWB chip egg even the older models have but now you can find another iPhone 15 user in a crowd if they share their location. The UWB chip will guide you right to them
I’ve wanted something like this for at least a decade for when my wife and I get separated in the Mall so that instead of calling her to see where she is (and she often doesn’t hear it ringing) I’d be able to just use the phone to lead me to her… Pretty useful in real life. And it also works for your misplaced tracker tile, air pods, iPad etc
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And? How many android devices can you name that actually support satellite messaging today? When the feature DOES come on the android side, I imagine it is going to probably be flagship devices as well. Seems to be a silly thing to call Apple out for.
Its been on every Pixel since the 7 I believe, I realize that’s only a couple iterations but its out there.
But is Android doing the on device LLM already? Because it sounds like they aren’t…
https://www.androidauthority.com/how-to-get-gemini-nano-on-pixel-8-8a-3450466/
Pixel 8 pro already does. I’m not sure, but I think Samsung has something too.
I think Pixel 8 and 8a do too, or at least are capable, since they’re the same chip. I’d check, but I put GrapheneOS on my phone so I don’t have all of the Google stuff.
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I doubt it. The Pixels may be doing some but with Google I’m sure it’s not much as they always prefer server side computing.
iPhone will definitely aim to do most of it on device and use the server as little as possible. Which imo is the way to go.
Android 15 beta… so it’ll be available on phones, out of the box, without anyone having to build/install a custom, on phones actual normal humans buy in about 2030 then.
Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
Do people actually want these?
Yes, in fact that is the only kind of ai i would ever use and entrust my data to. Not the apple one, but an open source model that is running only on my device and answering only to me; using the data I provide only for my interests? That one I would use.
I bet these LLM models wont be 100% locally hosted. I imagine some form of data will be piped back to a cloud server
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“secure” meaning “apple sees all your data”
Isn’t Apple one of these companies that actually does not sell user’s data?
So? I don’t want apple themselves knowing my data either.
The data is unavailable to Apple.
I just honestly don’t believe that.
Is that why there are so many celebrity iCloud leaks floating around the internet?
It wasn’t a software issue, but a human issue. People got scammed and gave their logins away.
This system is built so that nobody can access it and they’ve went to extreme lengths to make it so. It’s also available for auditing, it hardware and software.
LMFAO
“It’s a very thoughtful design. Indeed, if you gave an excellent team a huge pile of money and told them to build the best “private” cloud in the world, it would probably look like this.”
- Matthew D Green, cryptography teacher at Josh Hopkins
You can go argue with him if you disagree.
LLM is AI correct? If my phone is going to do AI at all, I prefer it be done on device for sure. For privacy reasons if nothing else. But it’s not anything I’ve really looked into. I have the S24 and the only AI feature I use is the Circle to search… which I don’t consider to be AI.
LLM is a form of AI, specifically the text AIs like ChatGPT that have suddenly made “AI” a dinner table term. AI in some form or another is almost definitely being used in your device - even for things like filling in gaps in low-quality voice calls, and probably has been for a while. But the problem is that unlike those “old” AIs, LLMs require some significant power to run, so running them on phones will probably require meaningful trade-offs. But the increased security is also a meaningful benefit.
They add a kinda nifty “copy subject” option that is supposedly local AI stuff to the samsung gallery, fun to mess with
“Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?”
…yes?
As much as I hate apple and google, I want a future where all these can be done locally without massive servers and sending all data to cloud . Apple clearly have a edge over google in that regards.
Ah, you mean like the sync that Palm OS used to have? Yup, that was neat, and I’m still waiting for Android to pick up some of the neat features from back then.
I miss palm OS. I think it had some undeniable jank but it also had great features and a bit of “charm”. I’m pretty sure I still remember most of the Graffiti alphabet!
I totally bought a Palm off eBay few months ago. It’s been fun to use Palm OS 5 again. I got a model that actually has WiFi, which was also interesting to set up a AP that was compatible with it.
One I got had a dead battery, ordered a new one, it was so much nicer to open the old tech and replace the battery. Just screw and little solder. No glue and impossible small stuff to work with.
It definitely comes at a cost though. The private local models will be inherently dumber because of less compute and smaller data sets.
And, unfortunately, this is a hard thing to communicate to the public. All they know is that Assistant responded to a request better than Siri.
Look into the past , what a huge server does now a small SBC can do now . In 10 years what chatgot runs in cloud could potentially be running in a smartphone
This has been the case for at least 11 years.
Idk, I think Apple was first to do face unlock. That’s all I got…
I used to unlock my desktop with my face a long time ago (20 years or so)… No clue when it came to mobile devices, I could totally see Apple bringing that to mobile first.
Yeah, the tech itself isn’t new. Fingerprint sensors also took a while to come to mobile, and they’ve been around for ages.
I’m also not interested in face unlock. Passwords work fine, and fingerprints are more than plenty for lazy people.
I wholeheartedly agree, I thought it was cool until I realized the security concerns. FDE and pass phrases only please. If only someone could convince more companies to allow proper TOTP instead of wanting you to use their proprietary authenticator.
Yup, looking at you, Fidelity and Steam…
What about round corners?
My last brand new Pixel phone had debug strings in the user interface and the UI was not responsive. It’s the daily annoyances and details that made me get an iPhone. Comparisons have been stupid since the beginning of smartphones.
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I didn’t realise android did free SMS over satellite when there is no cellular connection
Looks like it’s been available on some android devices for at least a month. I don’t know about free though, I think it depends on your carrier. I know T-Mobile has been talking about supporting it using Starlink satellites.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/1ct1no1/satellite_messaging_option_appeared_on_my_pixel_7/ https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/first-spacex-satellites-launch-for-breakthrough-direct-to-cell-service-with-t-mobile
But with the iPhone it’s free, and not carrier dependent and works outside of the United States for those of us in the rest of the world….
For me the importance is that it’s free - I wouldn’t even pay $5 a month for a service that I’d use in very unlikely situations probably once or twice a year.
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They said it’s free for 2 years with any new purchase of iPhone since iPhone 14; and now they’ve extended it for 1 more year. No one has had to pay for any of it yet - and it’s unknown if/when/how it’ll be a paid service
Android is 5 years ahead of iPhone 60% of the time
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Not anymore. That was true for a few years but iOS has definitely overtaken Android. Plus when you include the entire Apple devices ecosystem, Arcade, TV+, Homepod, Continuity etc iOS FAR, FAR outstrips Android.
Android is a stand alone device but iPhone is one piece in a mosaic of devices and services.
This is why now, after the last 4 years on Android, I’m switching back to iPhone.
Plus the hardware and cameras on budget Android devices are shit and I’m tried of paying for shit.
The Snapdragon 695 came out 3+ years ago and yet Qualcomm just released this year the Snapdragon 6s gen 3, which is … the 695 with a slightly higher clock speed… 🤦
For €300 - €550 they keep selling us the same junk with a different name and colour and I’m done with that bs.
You are using “they keep selling us the same junk with a different name” to justify apple? Hilarious.
As someone that flips between Samsung and iPhone they all are selling us the same shit every year. Smartphones in general have gotten stale. I can’t remember anything in the last 5 years that anyone has announced that made me think I have to upgrade my device. Maybe it’s just me but the tech seems boring now.
Phones aren’t stale. They peaked. That’s like saying umbrellas design has gotten stale. You just can’t improve the design much more.
Phone tech is really boring. Almost everything looks the same, they are all x% faster than last year’s model which still does everything perfectly fine. In terms of hardware, the phone has kinda reached the optimal place.
I’m not the target audience for bleeding edge phones though. I take photos, listen to music(using Bluetooth and wired headphones), browse the web and message people. I don’t really play games or use it for work.
By far the most interesting thing to me is foldable phones. I really like the idea of a flip phone, but I don’t think it would be too happy sitting in my sweaty pocket while I cycle.
