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Liberals think Democrats aren’t half to blame for this shitty country being the way it is.
You must be on some weird ass instance. I see tons of reasonable anger at democrats and Republicans alike. I don’t see upvotes for baseless tribal click bait like this tho
Nah, post something to /c/memes saying the US is a fascist nation and has been so for decades, it’s upvotes galore.
Imply the democrats have anything to do with it, and suddenly what’s the time in Moscow, how does Xi’s dick taste like, yadda yadda
and suddenly what’s the time in Moscow
ah, now I get the Hexbear sidebar clock joke
Oof sounds bad
Running a feckless campaign that refused to break with Biden’s admin on genocide is why we got this living hell. And running the most unlikeable woman in the country in 2016 is what made 2024 even a possibility.
Dems have fucked up terribly.
You’re absolutely right
That about sums it up.
I’ll vote Democrat as long as the alternative is fascism.
But fuck me, I’d love to vote for something else. And I’ll be honest, I have no idea how we get anything better.
I hear people saying to organize, but I can’t even imagine what that takes. I wonder if most Americans feel as helpless as I do in the face of this absolute bullshit.
I’ll vote Democrat as long as the alternative is fascism.
Unfortunately, much of what the Democrats represent is fascism.
Depends on what you mean by “much”? I’d argue the Democrats, on the whole, are liberals, not fascists.
I’d certainly prefer progressives and leftists though.
The support for Israel whole they genocide Palestine, thought… ugh. That can certainly be viewed as fascism, although where you draw the distinction between fascism and imperialism is up for debate. Not that imperialism is good either, just saying.
The hard fact is that what the population votes for is what the population gets. They have completely given up their agency and just accept this impotent logic of “we’ll take whatever the most obvious/most apparently easy option is, that isn’t a Republican”. It’s a cyclical problem, the voters don’t care enough to force politicians to be good, and the politicians don’t care enough to court voters.
The hard fact is that what the population votes for is what the population gets.
It really isn’t, study after study has shown that popularity has basically no effect on policy.
…the candidate the population votes for. Did you need that to say “who”?
At the same time, “what the population votes for is what the population gets” ignores that we are often only presented with crappy options to start with.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say “you get what you fight for, and if you don’t fight you get what you get.”
I… haven’t really fought for anything. I believed the right things. I voted as best I could. But that clearly didn’t stop this.
I want to protect my ego and say I’m not a coward. Is there a distinction to be made between cowardice and simply not knowing what to do? I don’t know. I just know I’m trying my best, but maybe that’s just not enough.
At the same time, “what the population votes for is what the population gets” ignores that we are often only presented with crappy options to start with.
It does not ignore that, rather it explicitly takes that into account.
The caveat to my statement would ONLY be “so long as we’re using this system.”
Please focus more on accurate logic.
It’s an unfortunate trait of the reddit migrations. That place was crawling with die-hard liberals, not entirely dissimilar to scabies. It stands to reason a few of the uninitiated would find their way here.
In spite of how I started this comment, we must remember that they are of the working class, and further division is a benefit exclusive to the capitalist.
I feel that the further we sink into full-blown fascism, the more of them will become aware, and may be counted among allies one day soon.
I plan to speak to those who are willing to listen and learn. But beware the contentious fool, ever seeking a debate but never trying for understanding.
.world got the liberals that were too delusional for reddit.
I agree, but the fact that they even came here gives me hope that they are open to change. It’s the ones who stayed on reddit are the lost causes, I think.
I downvoted. Not because you criticized democrats, but because your stupid post says you get downvoted for that. No you fucking don’t. You almost always get up voted for it. This is a garbage bait post.
My comment history says otherwise. I get downvoted whenever I remind people that the Democrats are guilty of genocide.
I went digging through your comments a bit to see what you’re talking about, and no most are upvoted from what I saw. There are exceptions, like this one:
I think teaching the Democrats a lesson was worth it. They can’t commit genocide and pretend to be the lesser-evil. You can and should oppose both. I am of the personal opinion that evil hiding behind polite decorum is a greater threat than evil that doesn’t pretend to be good. You are free to disagree.
Yeah, no shit you get downvoted for stuff like this. People aren’t going to be very thankful you support their suffering being worsed. The people in Gaza also probably aren’t super happy that Trump has straight up supported the plan for genocide and taking the land.
Being critical of Democrats gets upvotes. Being a callous asshole who says Democrats “learning a lesson” (which I haven’t seen any evidence for) is worth all the suffering the Trump adm. will cause will deservedly get you downvotes.
You stopped at the first downvoted comment that confirmed your bias. Also what is your opposition to holding the Democratic Party accountable for genocide? They had 15 months to change course. They had the election cycle to get a hint and change their position. The DNC wouldn’t even allow a Palestinian American to speak at the convention. Trump and the Republicans being worse is never an excuse for genocide.
Here’s one: https://lemm.ee/post/53700851/17792640
Here’s another: https://lemm.ee/post/52746433/17573189
Another one: https://lemm.ee/post/34065555/12436103
Any comment that points out that it was the Democratic Party that allowed the genocide to happen and created the conditions for Trump to propose ethnic cleansing got downvoted. The Democratic Party could have stopped the genocide, they purposefully chose not to. You should oppose them for this not make excuses because the Republicans are going to be worse.
I’m not going to spend all day going through your comments to prove a point.
The first one is positive.
The second is zero, so probably 1 downvoted, assuming you didn’t remove your default upvote. Not really meaningful. It’s also dismissive of Trump to shift to Biden, but whatever.
The third if you notice the comment you replied to is positive and implying Biden supports genocide, so it once again proves that comments or posts that are critical of Biden or the Democrats generally get upvotes.
You have a confirmation bias. You want it to be true that comments critical of democrats are downvoted, but it isn’t. Usually they’re received positively, as long as you aren’t being an asshole.
The first one is positive.
The second is zero, so probably 1 downvoted
The third if you notice the comment you replied to is positive and implying Biden supports genocide
The only thing you’ve proven is that it is controversial enough for just as many people to upvote as have downvoted, your viewer just only shows the net result. Try viewing these in the browser for a more accurate assessment.
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What dem supporters need to understand is that support for Trump for many is people sticking two fingers up at the neoliberal order. All this talk of “woke” or whatever would all evaporate if people thought they were getting a fair shake. Of course it’s a bloody stupid way of protesting this like so as it’s basically asking the foxes to fix the hen house.
The key point is the neoliberal order hasn’t been successful by capitalist standards. GDP growth in western countries from 1985-2015 was slower than the 1955-1984 period which preceded neoliberal policies taking hold.
So what you ended up with was a system which actually slowed growth, removed welfare in a lot of cases, made housing unaffordable and really only seems to have succeeded in funnelling money into the hands of the 0.1%.
People have been convinced all kinds of scapegoats and whatever are to blame, but it’s pretty clear that they see mainstream politicians, as most embodied by the Dems, as the face of their issues.
The lack of self-reflection on the part of mainstream Dems is a huge, serious issue which has basically given Trump and Musk a blank cheque to implement fascism or at least very authoritarian capitalism.
It’s not that they suck. My problem with them, as an independent, is they’ve positioned themselves as the moral high ground party while in fact they have no moral leg to stand on. Their leadership had a historic moral test when it comes to the Gaza genocide and they failed it. They had another test to put a great candidate to prevent another Trump presidency, but they bowed down to their corporate masters and picked Kamala.
It’s that level of fundamentalism and holier than thou attitude that alienates many people like me. They have zero fighting tactics against Republicans besides clutching pearls and shaming. Kamala’s website up until the election day had no “agenda section”. You can’t really tell what her campaign is about. I guess she’s perfect enough and shouldn’t be questioned, otherwise “racism and sexism”.
They need a complete reset and redo of the party and its principles. Until then, I’m a non voter.
I wish I was this eloquent and well thought out in my replies. This 100% what I would have commented if I didn’t have skill issues.
thank you 🙏🏻
I’m not disagreeing with anything you said but a non-voter is a trump voter.
This is the reality you now face.
You do understand how the trolley problem - and your electoral system works?A non vote is a non vote. A vote for “neither of these”.
Abstinence is not a sexual position, either.
And you understand we need to stop the trolley, not vote for people holding down the throttle, right?
Well said. Thank you.
Maybe there is a cultural difference because of our “compulsory” voting.
I’m sure there are plenty of aussies that would agree with you but I feel a bit like:
Very familiar with the trolley philosophical problem, thank you. But you’re arguing the lesser of both evils point of view, again. Which is not an excuse anymore. With all due respect, but it’s a horrible half-assed defeatist mentality that will never create any meaningful change. And yes, I’m very familiar with the electoral system, and the popular vote. Both of which clearly wanted Trump to win. Denying that this was what the majority of America wanted is delusional. What we should focus on is why on earth did the majority pick such a horrible president (Trump)? I’d love to see Democrats take on that self reflection and come up with better messaging and policies instead of acting like us independents owe them a vote…And no, “racism and sexism” ain’t it either.
I’m reminded by this quote from my one of favorite authors (Hunter S Thompson) in 1972:
“How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?” ― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72
We’re in 2025. Neither Trump nor the Genocide-supporting DNC deserves to be in power. That’s what a non-vote is.
And yet one of them is.
I am not from Australia had have no say. You did - and yet you did nothing. I understand it is hard to support something you fundamentally disagree with but the lesser of two evils is still better (eg: no Palestine resorts).
No one will agree with you or me on every policy, we are being asked to choose.BTW We have our own fascism problems here & donkey/informal voting is rife. Bad things absolutely could happen here.
Edit: I am from Australia
Spamming as a conservative on multiple posts? This is the same type of posts you see on conservative reddit, always pointing out both sides, when there’s almost none of the same type of opinionated posts when referring to Republicans. I know you like to blame Dems, but Republicans are the ones actually promoting and using racism , and fascism right? Where’s the criticism against them with such vigor as your post. Your the reason why Reddit has been so aggressive with their banning. Also because your barely mention Rs in good faith. Yes dema has their problems, but Republicans are far worst people.
Where’s the criticism against them with such vigor as your post.
It’s not needed, OP and everyone here knows they’re horrible. There’s no point in adding a redundant “death to Republicans” after every critique of the Democrats who enabled them.
Yes dema has their problems
Genocide trivialization
acknowledging that both sides support a genocide and moving past that because there’s nothing you can do to change it isn’t trivialising it; it’s being realistic about a whole lot of horrendous options… sticking your head in the sand doesn’t magically make the genocide go away
Describing genocide as “they have their problems” is absolutely genocide trivialization.
How does one just “move past” backing genociders?
if you live in the US, and pay taxes, you contribute to that same genocide… if you have no choice in the matter, i don’t see how you can be responsible for it
voting is similar; your 2 realistic options for voting in the US were republican or democrat… no other choice was going to effect the outcome of this particular issue. in that case, either look at which choice was less awful for the issue or put that to the side if you think they’re both the same and look at other things: queer rights, protection of democracy, economy, etc
no matter how you slice it, voting democrat means fewer people would have died, globally and domestically; that’s how you move past it… by realising that genocide was going to happen no matter what, so may as well save some other lives and keep trying to fight the genocide in other ways
Let’s be real: just maybe domestically.
On foreign policy, the only thing that changes are which imperialists will we be allies with. The death tolls don’t change much, just sometimes the location.
i think domestically, internationally in general, and possibly in gaza tbh:
gaza: trump has said directly that he wants to level gaza and take it over for the US; the democrats at least paid vague lip service to “red lines” and shit - i don’t know what was happening behind the scenes; it didn’t seem like much, but we can never know how much worse it could have been without that. i feel like trump is definitely worse for the palestinians, based solely on his rhetoric
internationally: people will die in ukraine; perhaps a lot of people, and who knows whether the conflict will escalate further from here given the fragmentation trump has and will cause
domestically: yeah i don’t think i even need to go there
however you slice it, trump is going to cause significantly more deaths… im not okay with “supporting genocide”; it makes me absolutely livid that no matter what happens genocide will be the outcome… but not making a choice definitively causes more loss of life
i understand for sure the argument that if you vote for democrats anyway, where’s the line? when do you punish them so that they learn? it’s frustrating as fuck for sure… and that’s a valid argument, but in that case you’re still making a choice: you’re sacrificing all those lives over the next 4 years to maybe teach them a lesson (that they didn’t learn last time with hillary)
granted, i’m not a US citizen so my “support” is limited to trying to convince people on the internet to not fuck over the world
gaza: trump has said directly that he wants to level gaza and take it over for the US;
Biden was leveling Gaza, and Harris said she’d keep giving Israel free reign to engage in a genocide.
internationally: people will die in ukraine; perhaps a lot of people, and who knows whether the conflict will escalate further from here given the fragmentation trump has and will cause
That was going to happen, sooner, or later. It was going to escalate, because the aggressor was given very little reason to NOT escalate it.
however you slice it, trump is going to cause significantly more deaths…
Honestly, the raw numbers will likely be about the same. The difference is where. Right now, it looks like “mostly in the US”.
i understand for sure the argument that if you vote for democrats anyway, where’s the line? when do you punish them so that they learn?
And this is why you never support things like genocide, or stripping people of their rights. Not just when it’s the other party doing it.
granted, i’m not a US citizen so my “support” is limited to trying to convince people on the internet to not fuck over the world
Its a great lesson for other countries to not rely on the US, a fascist state,.
It’s because a lot of the criticism attributed to “the Democrats” it’s just general criticism about the government and has nothing to do with a Democrats specifically.
I really feel like as soon as a Democrat gets in the office people forget that the other half of the government is fucking Republicans that will do anything to stop Democrats from getting what they want… That’s the entirety of what Turtleman is made of.
I have a criticism of the Dems that isn’t “the whole govrtnment”.
Locally, the dems ignored the primary winner, backed the incumbent with a write in campaign, drawing from donors as far away as the Virginia GOP committee, and helped elect a Reich Wing sheriff, just to secure the cops vote for the write in.
The Democratic Party as a whole is like milk in your fridge that’s a week past its “best by” date.
The Republican Party is milk that a dog vomited on a Texas in July sidewalk.
We’re drinking one of them, because no alternative is possible in the near term.
It’s possible to vote for Democrats in 2026 and '28 and '30 and '32 while we build an alternative that can have electoral success, or takeover the Democratic Party from within or heck turn the Republican Party into a party worth supporting…
If all the milk in my fridge is spoiled, I throw it out. Maybe try that?
Aye, we need a new system.
I cannot tell you how sick of these pithy little infantalising pseudo-analogies I am.
No, genocide is not like “milk that is past it’s expectation date”. Talk like a damn adult.
80 million Dem voters (depicted as “crowd of NPCs” meme): “We are voting for Democrats in the near term because there is no other option”
I legitimately haven’t seen anyone defend democrats. They’re like the IRS: necessary, but no one likes them.
What I have seen is “democrats suck!” as a general deflection anytime someone mentions how bad this current administration is, how it could have been prevented, or what we need to do in the future…
I have seen plenty and Democrats are not like the IRS. They are not necessary at all. They are just one right wing party that should disappear and be taken by an actual left wing party. The fact that you think that they are necessary shows how deep the ingraining of the necessity of a bipartisan oligopoly has run in the populous.
`The fact that you think that they are necessary shows how deep the ingraining of the necessity of a bipartisan oligopoly has run in the populous.
This is the crux and can not be overstated.`
Democrats are only necessary if your goal is to maintain the illusion that America is a democracy which serves the people while maintaining the status quo.
Democrats are a net negative. What is necessary is something we don’t have and haven’t had, a true leftist party. The lack of that necessary party is what has led us to this current situation.
The Republicans being bad doesn’t make the Democrats good. Especially when they are complicit.
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Join us on hexbear and lemmygrad
Blasphemer! They are the golden calf! Kneel before your genocidal god else you will get more genocide!
Libs think they’re the party it’s so sad lmao
