- cross-posted to:
- buyeuropean@feddit.uk
- buyfromeu@feddit.org
- privacy@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- buyeuropean@feddit.uk
- buyfromeu@feddit.org
- privacy@programming.dev
Several years ago I had a Discord community with hundreds of users. This was an IRL community, so it was very difficult to abandon but I did anyway. Tried to get people to leave but they were unwilling. So I handed it off to another member and deleted my account. Now that admin has contacted me again and let me know everyone is ready to leave. I found Fluxer yesterday while poking around #Discord on Mastodon and I think we’re going to end up there.
Fluxer is still very early in development and they have plans for many advanced features in the roadmap but it’s very feature-rich today. Current monetization plan is freemium + Patreon-like monetization. I understand that may be a dealbreaker for some but there aren’t a ton of other great options, and everything is open source, and self-hostable, and if you do, you get all of the premium features for free, while still communicating with the main instance over federation (in roadmap). That still leaves it susceptible to Mattermost-style enshittification but honestly rolling back updates solves most of those style of problems.
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Self-hosted deployments won’t include any traces of Plutonium,
I’m sure there’s a context here, but it’s funnier without it
lol, plutonium is their paid version of the software, so they’re just saying that nothing will print us to “upgrade”
“nothing will print us”
What?
Prompt* sorry autocorrect is kicking my ass
discord said something similar at some point iirc
Fucking hell, can people please just band together and build one piece of software that works well and is federated? There are like 17 of these clones already, this is doing no one good.
I’ll do it. Then we can have 18 clones.
927
NOOOOOO
As long as they’re federated, does it matter if there’s multiple different softwares? Wouldn’t they be able to communicate with each other, so it’s not like each would be in its own silo?
Or can matrix only talk with matrix, IRC with IRC, XMPP with XMPP, etc?
As long as it doesn’t result in silos, I think having multiple choices is a good thing. It gives you options, and can grow in multiple directions to suit different needs. Plus there’s redundancy so no single point of failure. Part of what’s good about open source is that anyone can fork it, right?
A lot of these aren’t at all.
Or can matrix only talk with matrix, IRC with IRC, XMPP with XMPP, etc?
Yes, they have to be the same protocol to communicate.
No, because most of them suck
Ehh I have the most faith in matrix but it definitely isn’t perfect and barely a discord replacement .
Someone mentioned commet as a discord like matrix client the other day. I’ve trialled it using my matrix setup, and it looks and feels very clean, I definitely prefer it to element.
Unfortunately as the tale always goes, it’s not quite on par with element in features (it claims to have RTC support using livekit, but I couldn’t find the group call option), but it’s definitely one of the more interesting clients to come about recently. I really like the separation of spaces and personal chats, and the multiple accounts feature is useful from a sysadmin perspective.
Once they manage voice channels with RTC, I think matrix will finally have its discord alternative that could see some adoption with everyday users.
@javiwhite @ComradeRachel did the same and agree with your assessment. Very promising and much faster then Element… and multi account built in.
Oh did you both install it? It’s neither on Flathub nor F-Droid
I installed it locally using the deb package on their GitHub. They also have apks and I believe a flatpak too (don’t quote me on that though).
The android APK is a little funky (I kept getting the notification “you’ve been invited to a room” for every message I’d receive) so I switched back to using element x for the time being, but commet is now my go to client for my laptop, as I don’t use that machine for VC anyway.
You’re right in the sense that none of it is hosted on app repositories though; they’ve still got some ways to go on that front.
@BaraCoded used the brower, Debian package did nothing
I’ll put it in my notes and wait until their distribution system is a little maturer. It looks pretty Discord-adjacent
WELL WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS
I mean, 100 different reasons.
Which could really do with being fixed.
That’s the idea, yeah
Hmm I’m not sure if another RTC server solution is the best way…
I don’t understand.
Just because you call it universal doesn’t mean everyone will use it or use it properly. Look at usbc it’s fuckeddd
I didn’t call anything universal…
Why are they already selling a Discord Nitro equivalent for an unfinished Beta???
This feels like a bad sign to me
How… Do you think projects get seed money? Like do you think daddy bezo just appears from thin air to grant people endless wealth to work on major projects?
They could’ve just made it donations, or made less of the features require premium.
Stoat and Matrix do fine with that model.
How do you think things get funding
I mean, there’s literally a job title called “investor”, where the whole point is to go around looking for things that are in early stages of developing and going “HERE’S SOME MONEY, IF YOU GIVE ME A PERCENTAGE OF ALL FUTURE PROFITS”
Edit: no autocomplete, I don’t want to say “Wales stage”, wtf
I mean, there’s literally a job title called “investor”,
Why are we acting like investors are a good thing now? The platonic ideal of “an investor”, someone who seeds money and hovers hands-off to watch the investment grow, has been dead so long you could be forgiven for thinking it never even existed.
Maybe they don’t want a single revenue source to present undue influence on development. If their revenue is entirely supported by their premium model and they make a decision bad for the community, money dries up. You think Discord would be doing dumb shit like it is, if they weren’t floating off investors and whatever Palantir is throwing at them?
Of all the things to complain about, the fact that people can pay to have an animated avatar or screenshare in 4K (a resolution that a super-minority of people even have a monitor capable of rendering at) is baffling.
y’know, yeah, I’ve been convinced by ye and others, fluxer also feels like it’s not a complete shambles too, which the money was probably a helper towards that
Stoat and Matrix do fine with that model.
Having checked a year ago and checking again now, their UX has barely improved and the GUI is still significantly worse than Discord. They need some sort of monetization strategy for funding and leadership that isn’t a shitshow so that they can make something that people will actually want to use.
Well lots of ways but immediately adding a paid subscription should be a HUGE RED FLAG. Donations, one time payments, etc are fine. Paywalling features from the get go is bullshit tho. And the fact that discord got away with turning normal features into paid ones for years is insulting and laughable. Using custom emojis being locked behind nitro when fucking MSN messenger from 1999 had that is a sad example of how far we’ve fallen.
Any replacement candidate that’s just “discord from a few versions ago” can go fuck itself. Discord was a blight upon the Internet and it’s downfall should be celebrated, not “hey anyone have a clone of this piece of shit? I want something still shitty, just not this shitty”.
Someone said above that it’s all open source and if you self host your own server you can access all the premium features for free. That seems pretty reasonable.
That’s good to hear. I’ll have to give it a look as I sort through alternatives. In fairness, I am in favor of a nitro style subscription for HD voice and video and larger attachment file sizes when you’re not self hosting and relying on their servers. But all the paid profile customization and emoji use stuff needs to go. We need to no longer accept that anywhere.
I think a lot of digital things, including video games, became much worse with the loss of dedicated servers. It used to be expected that you would rent a server to host your ventrillo/teamspeak server. It used to be much more common to rent a server for your Counter Strike games, or play on someone else’s who did. You’d rent some server space and host your vBulletin forum or hang out on someone elses. We used to be much more self reliant on hosting our communities and now we outsource it to a company that offers it for free and turns us into the product.
You want to not be the product? Self host your services or pay for a server hosting service, one that treats you as a customer and not as some free resource to exploit.
And honestly… For fucks sake how did we get to this point where we expect everything online to be free because it’s “just digital”. No. Fuck no. Bandwith and server space and server time costs money. It cost electricity. It costs actual tangible resources that people love to bring up when you’re talking about how evil AI data centers are, but that’s the whole fucking internet! Data centers and cables and all that shit that makes it work. And so many of y’all sit here and act like it should all be free. It’s “free as in speech, not free as in beer”. That’s what we meant. And it got twisted into this abomination we have now…
Yeah I went off on a rant there. Nothing personal to you, person who responded to me. Just went off on a tangent lol. I appreciated you telling me it can be self hosted. That’s awesome 👍
I’m actually cool with projects being sustainable from the start, rather than hyper scaling off private equity funding before gutting features and selling them back at a later date.
Revolt/Stoat not talking about paid options at all on their main page makes me more suspicious, if anything.
Because people don’t like to donate.
Ideally there will many other self-hosted and federated instances to join without any payments.
Not saying anyone should jump on it right now, just to have a look and keep an eye on it. I definitely wouldn’t invest anything into it until after it’s self-hostable, at the very least.
I do have to wonder, given the age of the app and the seeming lack of contributors on GitHub, how vibe-coded is this app?
If you check the dev’s blog you’ll find they’ve been working on it for 5 years and published a squashed version of the history on GitHub when they cleaned up the code for public release
Welp, that blog wasn’t linked anywhere on the main page.
Reading through it, it actually makes it all seem a lot more reasonable, that’s good. It’s just difficult not to be skeptical in <current year>.Edit:
Fluxer was largely built before LLMs became a normal part of day-to-day development. I do use them now, but in a limited way: as a rubber duck and for mechanical implementation work when I already have a detailed spec. I treat the code it outputs like I would any external contribution.
No LLM designed the system, wrote the specs, or made architectural decisions. That was all me. I only use LLMs when I already know the platform well enough to review the result properly.That seems fairly okay.
Further edit: wording.
Now that you mention it, I couldn’t find the blog when I checked. I thought it was just me not being able to find a lit candle in a dark room lol
The response to this mess is gonna be everyone sticking with Discord, not because there’s no alternatives, but because there’s too many alternatives.
I think a lot of communities wont move at all tbh
Looks like they got caught out by this all too, they are asking for another month or so to get a refactor in.
It looks like they’re deploying this right now:
Fluxer HQ will likely remain unavailable for the coming few hours as I get this update deployed. The rest of the platform remains available. Please bear with us as we work to get the refactor deployed which should fix this and other issues you’ve been having! <3
I’m currently still locked in due to some magnitude of network effect. Let’s just say that I’m looking forward to more news about this program’s development with great interest.
Hope it does well, but consider how hard it was to get people to move from WhatsApp to discord, getting them to use a niche federated option is going to be an uphill battle for any non-techie groups for a bit.
How’s the Linux support? I’m having an issue of finding a platform that works properly with Linux, especially screen sharing. For some reason, audio does not work in screen sharing on Linux with discord or Root.
Haven’t tried it but I’ll give it a go and get back to you.
Works on CachyOS 👌
No such luck on Fedora Silverblue.
Just use the web version I’m a Chromium based browser.
I can’t, their shitty fucking email tracking link won’t open to log into my account.
Try turning off your ad blocker for it. I recommend using a separate profile in Google Chrome (not Chromium) for tricky sites.
Nah.
You could try Brave as their ad blocker whitelists things that cause breakage if blocked.
Nah.
Yeah that seemed to work but no one was watching so I can’t tell ya what it looked like :(
:(
The most difficult part is not switching but getting my friends to also log up
It’ll get a whole lot easier when they can’t access your community any longer without gov ID. Just start posting some dicks or something.
I set up stoat and I’m loving it so far, I’ll be curious to follow the development of this as well but I think the few people I got to join stoat out of the two dozen on my discord server would tar and feather me if I started talking about yet another alternative after the teeth pulling that was getting them to join the first one lol
I mean, that’s fair. Stoat just seems to have stagnated in development. Plus they openly admit they have no plans for federation. This one is newer and has quite a lot more features.
I think the discord exodus kicked their ass into gear dev wise, they seem to have finished up the rebranding (discord no longer shows revolt as the activity) and the desktop app got a few new features yesterday. But yeah, the lack federation thing is a definite downside, I think you can self host but it doesn’t seem to be super intuitive (granted I’m not the most technical). I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on this though. Thanks for sharing it!
EDIT 2: The Fluxer dev agreed to remove the CLA!
EDIT: Just a heads up to anyone interested in Fluxer: I was just informed today of a huge red flag for Fluxer; it has a contributor CLA that could allow it to change to a non-FLOSS license in the future. I was hopeful for it previously, but that kills it for me.
Of all the discord clones, this one does look promising I must admit, especially since the dev has mentioned they’d be open to incorporating federation and some encryption abilities down the road. The GPL license is a good mark, and the dev seems pretty chill. Downside is that’s it’s still very rough and in more of a visually polished alpha state. The dev mentioned they’re about to release a major refactor of the codebase, which they hope will fix the sluggishness the server is experiencing after an influx of new users from the Discord dumpster fire.
Personally, I’d still suggest Movim over Fluxer at the moment.
Movim already has a proven, scalable back-end (XMPP), it’s already federated, already provides good encryption, has 90% feature parity with Discord such as Chats, group video calls, screen-sharing with audio (requires chromium browser to share audio for now), its made in the EU, and it’s ready right now, not some time in the future (if Discord users fleeing discord try Fluxer, they’d be likely to bail on it due to the current bugs and just go back to discord). The Movim developer is also currently working on adding in discord-like channels and rooms.
But that’s just my 2 cents. Fluxer is one to keep an eye on for the future, though.
Movim seems less like a Discord alternative and more like a Whatsapp alternative
As I said, the discord-style server/rooms are currently being worked on. After which, it should functionally be pretty much 1:1 with Discord. The only thing it’d be missing is the Forums feature, but instead it does have a pretty cool blog feature :)
I think some programmers with striped thigh-high socks should take one for the team and work on Fluxer. Seriously!
So what do you think?
I’m very excited for this project as well!
