You had me at cannabis, fuck yeah lol

What if we’re in a “fall of the Roman empire” type scenario? Shit does not feel like business as usual.

Being pro-democracy means voting for the lesser of 2 evils

The “lesser evil” has ceased to represent progressives, both practically and morally.

On practical grounds, there are problems that have been with us for decades. To name a few examples: corporate bailouts/subsidies, expanding presidential powers, the increasing wealth gap, stagnating wages, environmental destruction, no climate tax, increasing government surveillance, the increasing military industrial complex, no federally mandated maternity leave, universal healthcare, no codification of reproductive rights, the 50 year decline of the middle class, etcetera.) When Democrats are in office, they delay some of the Republican agenda (temporally) but do not address these larger issues. Even when we get a blue majority, there are always a couple of Democrats that impede progress. As these problems have continued for decades, the logical conclusion is that Democrats are either incompetent or complicit.

On moral grounds, Democrats have supported far too many white supremacist / imperialist policies that benefit the wealthy elite. Democrats have voted for “tough on crime” policies that disproportionately affect people of color. (The recent expansion of ICE could have been prevented by Democrats. Yet Chuck Schumer is now calling for ICE reform instead of abolition.) Democrats have supported immoral wars and covert CIA operations in order to further our global hegemony and corporate profits – at the expense of Latin America, Africa, the Middle-East, and East Asia. The literal genocide of the Palestine people is still funded with US tax dollars. (If you think this is a “trick”, then it’s because you have no principles to stand on.) Democrats just voted to give Israel billions of dollars to continue the genocide.

There simply is no party to vote for to address these issues. While I don’t blame anyone who continues to vote to delay the Republican agenda, the “lesser of two evils” rationale is precisely what led us into a fascist oligarchic police-state.

If leftists are so significant that we influence elections, then pass progressive legislation. If leftists are so insignificant than we can be ignored, then stop blaming us.

I don’t think they’re saying the OP is dog whisteling. He’s saying the conservative “just obey” attitude is a dog whistle because racists think it will never be applied to them. They say “just comply” but they’re really talking to minorities.

My fellow worker: YOU need to buy a gun and legally protest with it. The fact that pro-gun Republicans are a lost cause doesn’t imply armed resistance is a lost cause.

Part of the reason that Donnie can send ICE into blue cities is because many of us are unarmed. Imagine what would happen if we took lessons from the Black Panther Party and patrolled our streets with armed neighborhood watches.

OP that is a crazy username

The nuance is appreciated but it doesn’t negate the point. Democrats are okay with the police state, imperialism, corporate welfare, genocide, etc. so long as everything goes according to procedure and decorum.

If you scroll down there is a graph showing an increase of 760 million dollars. Here’s the graph for your convenience:

Note that the ICE budget is now over 9 billions dollars. (Even before Trump’s massive increase in 2025.) Inflation in 2023 was 4%. An increase to keep up with inflation would be about half of the increase that we see from 2023 to 2024.

The point is that there is no one to vote for that will abolish ICE because both parties agree that it should continue. And there are many such examples of bi-partisan agreement that supports the wealthy, fascism, or both. I’d be happy to list them for you if you’d like more concrete examples.

I’m not preaching nihilism. To the contrary, we need to be more involved in grassroots organizations now more than ever. Anyone who hasn’t done so should join a leftist org. Look for a PSL, DSA, FRSO, or CPUSA chapter near you.

The growth outpaces inflation.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/the-cost-of-immigration-enforcement-and-border-security/

Truthfully, the entire agency should be abolished. Any Democrat politician who tells you this can be reformed is continuing the American police state.

You do realize that the powers of the president have been growing for some time now? That the militarization of the police took several decades? That the US has been involved in forever wars under both parties? That the working class has been on the decline for 50 years?

Just ask yourself: why would Biden increase the ICE budget after the first Trump presidency. Democrats told us to vote for them but they never addressed the precursors to fascism. There is a massive overlap between Establishment Dems and MAGA, the Dems are just more polite about serving their billionaire donors.

Liberals never want to zoom out and look at how we got here. George Bush created ICE after 9/11 even though we already put down Al Queda leadership. Then Obama increased its budget and deported 3 million people. Then Trump increased the budget. Then Biden increased the budget. Then Trump increased the budget again.

oh boy, hope this doesn’t awaken anything

You’re mad that we didn’t get a 4chan joke? And you think we’re the autistic ones?

I would like some lemons/limes please

Priming biases the results. Top-down processing and all that.

then ran elections that had results very different from the results of polls prior to the election

I’m not an expert on Venezuela, but I do want to note that the exact same thing happened for Trump’s first presidency. All the polls said Hillary Clinton would win.

You’re making two points here that I’d like to distinguish: 1) Difficulty, 2) Progression. The two points are connected, and I can see how your lived experience is relevant here.

As regards difficulty (#1), this has always been true for every conflict with the state, even for mere civil disobedience. No one wants to face dogs, or fire hoses, or firing squads, or artillery shells. Most people just want to take care of their family (myself included!). But the fact that resistance will not be easy does not make it any less necessary. The ruling class’ quest for infinite profits, which started with imperialism (of land, labor, and resources) abroad, has been steadily coming for the workers at home. Every administration we see the powers of the president growing, every decade it is harder for workers to get by. Now the situation is so dire that the rulers are no longer attempting to hide their disdain for the Constitution and international law. (We are openly throwing brown people in the backs of vans and kidnapping foreign leaders.) If we do not resist, the rulers will consolidate their power under a fascist regime.

Progression (#2) brings up a practical question concerning time frame. And here I concede your point that the difficulty of resistance requires groundwork. (This is why veterans are so helpful to the groups that are now making preparations.) Note, however, that we do not have the luxury of time. The ruling class is watching how we react and is working against us. The people must be willing to escalate in favor of their demands and must do so quickly. If we are not willing to escalate, then peaceful protests will continue to be ignored (e.g., The Woman’s March); If the people do not escalate quickly enough, then we will either lose steam (e.g., Roe v. Wade protests), be co-opted by the establishment (e.g., Occupy Wallstreet), or be violently suppressed (e.g., BLM).

There are historical examples showing how swift regime change is possible, but this comment is long enough as is.

I don’t mean to reduce collective action to open revolt; rather, the former is insufficient. Historically, unions, strikes, civil disobedience, and violence were all employed in order to win concessions from the ruling class. Civil rights and workers rights were won in blood. But these concession were clearly temporary because we are not addressing the root of the problem.

armed conflict could needlessly get innocents killed.

The perpetual violence of the state–both domestically (e.g., against protestors) and abroad (e.g., Venezuela, Palestine) – and the violence of our institutions (e.g. healthcare, prisons) already result in countless preventable deaths. Innocents are quietly dying every day and will continue to do so until we address the problem.